Post by kulaspero15 on Jan 30, 2012 20:58:24 GMT 8
Let's hear his side of the story first.
akosiabab you do know that you are posting comments at usapangfootball? Not in pacland, Right? For the past several days, all I read from you post is suntukan, bugbugan. Come on man, let's be a little bit civilized.
The PFF is sending a strong message to ALL players - Discipline is needed and it does not discriminate skill. Meaning even if you are a star, and especially if you are a star, your actions are scrutinized and if you do not behave in a sportsmanlike manner and if you show you are a bad example to younger players by doing something that renders disciplinary action then by all means it is justified.
Matthew Hartmann abandoned the team in the middle of a prestigious competition. Looks like he is only looking out for himself and not the team. I think the suspension was made indefinite because he was captain. Didn't the french players get suspended indefinitely from the national team for their mutiny at World Cup 2010? though they didn't get suspended from their own teams - why? because half of them did not play for french clubs. Evra was captain and he started the whole thing. He got suspended from the French National Team for five matches. Why just five? Because he said, he couldn't see his future without the National team. He wanted to get back in the squad, apologized and did the right thing. He got called back 6 matches later.
Yeah, maybe his side wasn't heard and his side of the story explained to the public, but just by leaving the team justifies this. Just my two cents.
I do not believe that his will last long. I do think if he apologizes the right way and to the right people and explains himself that they will remove this suspension. Yes his side of the story hasn't been aired out, but he hasn't apologized either.
the french players were suspended for playing for the nationale team but at no point there was a suspension on club level . this has happened in other national teams before after players get in trouble with each other or with the coach ; mostly they are not selected anymore until a new coach comes along and finds that he needs them . anyway what if one of the foreign based did this , would the PFF have suspended them in their german, belgian, english, spanish, dutch.... competiton ? where is the fairness in this ? this is overreacted from the pff as most players don't play for the national team because it's a job but because they find it an honor to play for their country and a suspension for the national team is already a severe punishment for them ;aside of that it is actually also taking his income away this should not have been handled like this , of course he can still appeal, but the fact that they handed out this suspension is totally put of proportion . anyway this is a good warning for players who have or will play for any of the national teams to stay out of the UFL . good work !
just a thought : which UFL-team will give in this case another player to the national team ? if your player doesn't behave there they risk suspension in the competition !! and conflicts can arise anytime with players, with coach, with staff etc. if it would be my team : no more players available . aside from everybody shooting now at the player -who of course made a mistake-, he shouldn't be punished for his "primadonna" behaviour . if that would be the case a lot of people should be banned ( look in your own work/school/friends/sport/showbizz/political - environment) from work/school/friends/sport/showbizz/political . we accept it from a lot of people but here it seems a lot have already condemned him .
@goyolarrazabal (Atty. Gregorio Larrazabal, Chair of Appeals Committee for the PFF)[/color]: Received a letter from Mr. Matthew James Hartmann regarding the decision of the PFF. He still has to file an appeal of the adverse decision
"Whether therefore ye eat or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God." (1 Corinthians 10:31 KJV)
Loyola Meralco Sparks to appeal PFF ban on Matthew Hartmann Francis Respicio, News5 · Tuesday, January 31, 2012 · 9:23 pm
The Loyola Meralco Sparks will appeal the indefinite suspension that the Philippine Football Federation meted out against midfielder Matthew Hartmann.
The Sparks’ Vice Chairman Randy Roxas said that they have already sent a letter to the PFF stating their intent to appeal the case. According to Roxas, the team wants an explanation from the PFF Disciplinary Committee about the suspension.
In a letter dated January 25, 2012, the PFF advised the Filipino-British Hartmann of his suspension. Quoting the Disciplinary Committee’s decision, the letter read: “Effective immediately, the committee finds Hartmann ineligible to join any national football team. Further, effective immediately, the Committee disallows any football club or organization from fielding Hartmann in any PFF sanctioned tournaments.”
Loyola is part of the United Football League, which is sanctioned by the PFF.
In an earlier interview with News5, PFF president Nonong Araneta said that Hartmann’s suspension comes as a result of his departure from the Philippine Under-23 national team in the midst of the Southeast Asian Games football tournament. Hartmann, the captain of the squad, abandoned the team after a disagreement with coach Hans Michael Weiss.
Loyola is looking to appeal for a shorter suspension for Hartmann, and allowing the player to suit up for the Sparks in the UFL while the investigation is ongoing.
According to Roxas, Hartmann has filed an affidavit detailing the issues leading up to his walkout on the team, and has pleaded for leniency in his case.
Roxas added that Hartmann is disappointed by the PFF decision.
Loyola will be severely shorthanded in its next outing against Global FC on Wednesday. Apart from Hartmann, star striker Phil Younghusband will also miss the match after receiving a red card late in the Sparks’ 4-1 loss to Stallion Gilligan’s last Saturday.
As this developed, the Philippine Football Federation’s disciplinary committee has slapped an indefinite suspension on Fil-British Matthew Hartmann for “abandoning” the Under-23 Azkals during their stint in the last 26th Southeast Asian Games.
“With this suspension, he becomes ineligible to join any national football team and he’s barred from suiting up for any football club or organization,” said PFF president Nonong Araneta of the Azkals Under-23 SEAG team co-skipper, who’s also effectively prohibited from playing for Loyola Meralco Sparks in the UFL.
Araneta said the Fil-British midfielder was given 10 days to appeal the PFF’s decision.
Post by azkalvolcanogilas on Feb 1, 2012 8:48:49 GMT 8
I do not know how we look at the whole situation. It is too elementary not to understand why the PFF is sending a strong message. Let us go back to the basics mate.
People are saying it is unfair not to allow Hartman in the UFL as this is like preventing him of his livelihood. It sounds morally correct but not too quick Rick...you have to check the effect of Hartman's action not only of today but the precedence it may create in the future because his irrational attitude may affect the overall lives of players playing in the UFL.
Well because the PFF is not only a football body tasked to generate awareness in the Philippines promoting health and livelihood to aspiring players but primarily to promote football as a sport that uplifts moral behavior, discipline, character and nationalism.
If you will tolerate a Hartman act tasked a vital role in the national team (take note not in the UFL but national team) by just giving a simple punishment then the PFF is not true to its mandate. A player can never be powerful to an organization that allowed him to play the sport that he love and earn a livelihood for himself. Pare, kung walang PFF walang trabaho si Hartman sa football sa Pilipinas. The PFF further acknowledge his talent so they trusted him to be the captain of the team, but I believe the PFF was fooled. The captain Hartman was only thinking of himself and not of the national team, not of his teammates.
Rick Olivares said his beef was the PFF did not even hear first the side of Hartman. Well did Hartman even think of the trust given to him by the PFF to be the captain of the team before he left in a huff? Was there any solid basis for the PFF to make him the captain of the team? I guess none, they just simply pinned they trust on him, yet Hartman did not given importance to this.
In my lifetime being a follower of Philippine sport, I never encountered a stubborn and so immature national team captain. Even in basketball which is more popular than football, never that I saw a captain left his team because he believe he is bigger than flag and country. The Loyzagas, Jaworskis, Adornados, Mumars, Calmas, all high-profile athletes never turned back for flag and country no matter how inconvenient for them being with a coach that they are not comfortable with. Even senior Azkal members like Phil Younghusband and Ali Borromeo, with the character of their coach Michael Weiss, I do not think they are comfortable with him, yet they always think of playing for country so they just stay and just play hard.
Hartman should have put on his mind the honor of being the team captain for his country and the task on his shoulder to protect the general interest of the country to the U-23 Pinoy national team, it is not about winning, it is about how you presented the competitiveness of the Philippines in international football. This is the task entrusted to him by the PFF, this is the task entrusted to him by the Filipino football fans.
Do not worry, he is not sentenced to death, he is just being disciplined that I really believe in due time the sentence will be lifted. Huwag kayong maawa kay Hartman, ang nakakaawa yung mga kababayan nating mahihirap pero may puso parin sa bayan. Pakiusap ko let us not overreact. I believe the PFF is just giving him a lesson na sana suportahan natin. If Hartman would know maraming kumakampi sa kanya then it is more we are crippling him of his growth being a player and a human being. Kailangan matuto siya. If Hartman would not learn now then believe me, marami pa yang gagawin na masasaktan hindi lang ang team niya pero ang buong PFF. If our beef is on Michael Weiss, then let us confront Weiss in a separate court.
No one in here disagrees that Hartmann deserved punishment. We're all clear on that.
But some issues are: - This might be a precedent regarding where the line is when it comes to club and country issues. Where does the line end when a player does something worth punishment for his club? Or while playing for his nation?
- Due process. Was the player given due process? Some might argue that the PFF had to use strong measures in this case. As long as due process was observed, I don't mind.
PFF sacks former U-23 Azkals skipper By Cedelf P. Tupas Philippine Daily Inquirer 11:11 pm | Tuesday, January 31st, 2012
MANILA, Philippines—Former Philippine Under-23 squad skipper Matthew Hartmann has been suspended indefinitely from all events sanctioned by the Philippine Football Federation for abruptly leaving the PH team in the middle of its campaign in the 27th Southeast Asian Games in Indonesia last year. At the same time, the PFF disciplinary committee “strongly reprimanded” coach Michael Weiss for “flip-flopping actions” related to the Hartmann case. In a Jan. 25 letter, the German coach was also asked to propose actions to deal with similar situations in the future. Hartmann, 22, left the team in Indonesia after the 1-2 loss to Timor Leste. Sources said he had a falling out with Weiss over team rules. The Under-23 Azkals went on to win just one of their last three matches. Hartmann was also barred from playing for the Loyola Meralco Sparks in the United Football League.
A PFF insider's response to the Matthew Hartmann suspension
Here is a response by someone with knowledge about the PFF’s decision on the Matthew Hartmann case. I received this the other day and am posting the response to what I wrote earlier.
“The decision was solely that of the Disciplinary Committee. This is really uncharted territory for us. The Disciplinary Committee is an independent committee responsible only to the PFF BOG. This insulates it from influence in decisions similar to this as it should be. While we would like to have seen a definitive suspension period, well that's not how the decision was handed down. As for the punishment fitting the "crime", Matt should seriously consider appealing the decision to the Appeals Committee where he will have the opportunity to have the decision either overturned or otherwise made more definitive/commuted (?) based on his ability to find defects not just with the decision but the basis for the decision.
The decision to hold in abeyance the filing of a case against Mr. Martinez was approved by the PFF BOG for humanitarian reasons given the state of his health. A case is currently pending in court against Mr. Tsai. Bear in mind that FIFA held back the release of the Financial Assistance Program (FAP) funds last year pending legal action in the alleged misuse of funds by the previous PFF administration. The FAP funds were eventually released based on substantial compliance with the required legal action. FIFA had originally asked for a case to be filed against Mr. Martinez but eventually acquiesced to the decision of the PFF BOG to delay the filing of a case against him.
As a "tribunal", the PFF Disciplinary Committee sets its own rules in adjudicating cases. In this instance, a complaint against Matt was filed with the PFF. The complaint was forwarded to the committee that immediately asked Matt to respond within a specified period of time. He and his lawyer/s responded with a comprehensive reply which went beyond the allegations in the complaint. His response was weighed against the complaint and the decision was handed down. It would be difficult to argue the lack of due process as it has been customary and courts have upheld that as long as sports bodies follow their own rules, there is little basis for judicial review of process.
The timing of the decision being released was impervious of any considerations other than it being rendered within the soonest possible time. I would like to think that as the governing body of the game in the country, the PFF's decisions should be independent of any consideration regarding the circumstances of those that it governs. There may be exceptions but I don't see this as being a case where an exception is called for.
In a sense, the PFF had to constitute the Appeals Committee to provide an avenue for Matt to challenge the penalty meted by the Disciplinary Committee. The Appeals Committee can only be constituted by the PFF Board of Governors. The first BOG meeting was January this year. So it would have been improper and unfair to release the decision in December even though it had been promulgated at that time as Matt would have had no body to appeal to.
I agree with you that the case you mentioned above (the French National Team’s mutiny in South Africa and/or Roy Keane’s departure from the Irish National Team during WC2002) could be cited as a precedent. That is obviously something that Matt can argue upon appeal but that is a tricky proposition. I have not seen the full decision itself. If we hypothetically assume that there are defects in the basis for the decision, Matt could argue to overturn the decision citing a lack of or insufficiency of basis. Secondarily, they could argue that given the facts of the case the penalty imposed is excessive or unwarranted and ask for a commutation of such. All these can be brought up during the appeal process.”
I thank the response to my thoughts about the suspension. Watch out for more on this.
i think matt's heavy handed indefinite suspension would be eventually rescinded once he shows genuine remorse for his national team dereliction. i get it that the punishment may have been overdone but what he did was a very serious offense (especially since matt was the one appointed w/ the captaincy) and that's why the pff is making a high profile example out of him.
down the road, i think this incident and the subsequent consequences will be a good case study for future infringements of a similar nature.
having said that, from now on the pff should be consistent in handing down punishment to any erring azkal or official so that there will be no perception of "sacred cows" with in the pff and with in the national team
stellarboy: perkoalcantara: Their football forum's in Chinese...
Jun 5, 2013 9:23:33 GMT 8
Made in Germany: There should not be any Problem with Hongkong FA, my team in Cebu get lots of support from Hongkong Football players. The Hooligans have nothing to do with the official football and must be condemned worldwide
Jun 5, 2013 9:49:13 GMT 8
deft1: no biggie HK peeps. let's trash talk next time pussies!
Jun 5, 2013 10:19:47 GMT 8
Sam: Yo guys when are the next tryouts? Currently looking for a nearby team in P'Que to join in
Jun 10, 2013 22:07:23 GMT 8
khiksz14: may tao po ba? may gusto lang akong itanong
Jun 17, 2013 19:40:41 GMT 8
khiksz14: pano makaka sali or saan pwedeng sumali ang cousin ko sa any football league or team dito sa pinas? galing po kasi syang spain at uuwi dito 18years old sya ngayon! salamat wala kasi akong idea napag utusan lang po ko.
Jun 17, 2013 19:43:00 GMT 8
stellarboy: khiksz14: Paki-post na lang ng message sa Introduce yourself thread sa Induction section. Salamat.
Jun 18, 2013 10:04:37 GMT 8