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Post by paulino19 on Aug 12, 2012 13:13:25 GMT 8
I couldn't stand it and actually ended up going to the game. I was there with my uncle and 2 cousins, both of whom were once players in the US Youth System. One of the cousins who was with me is good friends with the Inferno player who scored the 2 goals. He is also friends with the tall black defender on the Inferno (I have actually met this player, and he is a big guy). Francis is the first name, and he is from England. He is currently weighing offers from European clubs since he got back from a tour of Europe recently. My cousin told Francis that the Azkals goalie plays for Fulham ... He couldn't believe it when he saw Ed Sacapano manning the nets. LOL.
Where do I start? Me and the family were at a loss for words. We were impressed though with Denis Wolf. My cousin described him as 'sick'. In other words, just awesome. When he received the ball and went forward, he gave Francis and the Inferno defenders a very difficult time. His individual skill on the Azkals stood out, as it was obvious that Francis and the rest of the Inferno players paid special attention to him. His strength on the ball was excellent, and he could easily match the Inferno players skill for skill with his dribbling, passing and shooting. He was really the only bright spot on the team. It's not his fault that he couldn't score. He was getting no help from the midfield and had to drop back often to retrieve the ball. I was even shocked to see him deep in our defensive third dribbling the ball up.
Other bright spots: second half was much better with ball possession. The lineup in that half was much more cohesive and more mature in the way that they approached the match. The goal itself was a nice buildup of passes. Matthew Uy, once again, for me, was key. His simple style of play in the middle of the pitch and ball distribution should be copied by many of the players on this team. He was calm and cool. Really smart player.
Me and my cousins were constantly talking about the amateurish dribbling and long balls on part of the Azkals. It was embarrassing and frustrating to watch. Even top-level professionals with great skill don't play IRRESPONSIBLE like that. The Inferno schooled them on playing simple football ... and Misagh: STOP DRIBBLING! You kill the play every time!
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Post by kangaroo on Aug 12, 2012 14:29:38 GMT 8
Here is my non expert opinion so far:
I really think some players have to go and let these youngsters who are proving to be able and better replacements for some of our so called mainstays. Lets thank them and move on. Which in some way this camp is all about, to look at players and how they respond to situations as well as evaluate their slot in the NT. Well what can I say Ian is still Ian. I hate to say it but Araneta's slot should be given to someone else. Even Chieffy is disappointing. His lack of quality passes and crosses as a winger is not there. Gives the ball easily too. Agree with Strikerbon must be a case of not having that high football IQ. Misagh just couldn't get away with his futsal background of taking too much time on the ball. He's a sub at best IMHO. I would have preferred our young players to take that position between the sticks. Shame Deyto is not called for this camp. Im no expert but I also thought Sacapano's positioning is really not good. Some players are just good enough for local league but not internationally.We should invest on our promising young talents as I see potential in them.
Some players are out of position again due in part to the lack of defensive players. I thought that playing Christaens at LB is an investment for the future. Lets get him to play in that spot often and develop him into an LB. Considering our depth at MF and Winger positions and the lack there off at the LB position. This will be valuable for us in the long run and especially if he stays in the Phils and play locally in that position.
Bright second half from our youngsters. I thought that the substitution in the 2nd half was a good adjustment. And I share some of the observations already mentioned on the team's better play in the second half. I see promise in our additions and youngsters. Reichelt is making a case for a spot at the wing position. He proved more effective and efficient that Chieffy in this game. Some players just need to be told in the face to stop dribbling too much and going for glory. It should be told that our youngsters schooled our veterans on how its done. The writing is on the wall, their time is up. Just my one cent.
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Post by stellarboy on Aug 12, 2012 16:06:42 GMT 8
Like the friendlies with Malaysia & Indonesia, where there was an absence of the Younghusband brothers, the team could not create chances at goal, especially in the first half. Denis Wolf looked frustrated in penetrating the Inferno defense, therefore having his shots wide off the post or straight at the Inferno's tall goalkeeper. Chieffy Caligdong, being a natural left winger, still had a lack of quality passes and crosses, and gives the ball easily. Not the same one we saw a year ago. Chris Greatwich and Marwin Angeles were virtually non-existent during the match. Misagh Bahadoran was prone to overdribbling and therefore delayed chances on goal. Eduard Sacapano, the goalkeeper of the match was attributed to his poor positioning that led to the 2nd goal of the Inferno.
One surprising aspect of that particular match was having Jason de Jong (defensive midfielder) as center back and Jeffrey Christiaens (left winger) as wing back, reminiscent of how Coach Weiss fielded them in one of the matches of the Under-23 team during the 2011 SEA Games, mainly due to the lack of options on defense. In return they sometimes panic when the attacking mid of the Inferno tried to penetrate their portion of the pitch, and resulted to long balls and awkward passes. Most of the defenders fielded for this training camp are still recuperating from injury (Borromeo), or are past their prime (Margarse, Gener), therefore only relying to Jason Sabio and Carli de Murga at defense.
The second half looked promising though, where Matthew Uy, Demit Omphroy, Patrick Reichelt, Marvin Angeles and OJ Porteria were introduced throughout the half. Uy and Omphroy were hard workers on defense, while Reichelt, Marvin and Porteria were doing really creative chances on attack. The lone goal by Carli de Murga during the half was made by a crisp assist by Marvin from a pass by Porteria. Looked like the substitutions were a good adjustment.
In spite of this, given that the coach still lacks of a definite establishment of a system that fits the style of the players, the issue on defense and creativity at goal for upcoming friendly with the USVI will be suspect. I hope I'm wrong with this, but I will not be complacent.
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Post by cowscrubber on Aug 12, 2012 20:01:05 GMT 8
A lot of the local players have "low footballing IQ", as strikerbon says, and It's frustrating. Well, at least now we know which of the players are of good quality.
We sorely need a decent grass roots program to improve the quality of local-based players.
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Post by teddyandtimmysdad on Aug 12, 2012 20:59:51 GMT 8
Yes, the game was bad. All of the above comments contain certain threads which I agree with. However, I do not agree with one comment made - "given that the coach still lacks of a definite establishment of a system that fits the style of the players". I mean, come on. The guys arrived a few days ago, and before this some of them have never played together before in a competitive setting. Thus, I do not believe that the results are very surprising. And, I think it is very unrealistic to expect the guys to fit together into a "system" with just a bit of time together. This is tough on even the best players - witness the struggles of the British national team over so many years. Consider how much more experience those boys have compared to ours, and you can start to understand the magnitude of the problem confronting us.
In my opinion, Cowscrubber is on the right track. A solid grassroots system which encourages a consistent approach nationally will reap the benefits we seek. However, as we all know, we are such a long way away from this. Thus, a sudden introduction of "new talent" at this stage, which maybe has not been prepared under this type of system, IMHO takes us back 10 steps. Replace aging players - sure. But this must be done carefully and over time to ensure the continued improvements in the quality of the team until the grassroots is more mature and can produce the quality we need.
Japan started taking their grassroots seriously in 1965 after the 64 Olympics. It took 47 years to get where they are today. And, they are a country with strict discipline and attention to process - and it took them 47 years. This is not a game of quick fixes.
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Post by fadzki on Aug 12, 2012 22:15:17 GMT 8
I guess some are just really frustrated on how the team played especially in the 1st half... 4 months before the the Suzuki Cup we see Malaysia going up against Manchester City and Arsenal and we know how competitive they were in both of those matches and there coach was shuffling his players all over the place and even starting there 2nd GK in both of those games... then our azkals although missing a lot of key players was up against a 4th level team in the USA and can't even win... I can understand their frustrations...
On the other hand I also agree with Teddy... Sandro Reyes and our u14 brings hope that we Filipinos can excel in this game...
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Post by dingodile5 on Aug 12, 2012 23:51:45 GMT 8
Joson's thought
"nice read bob! but there is more to it. the club owner Todd brought in players from all over the country, but players who came up from the soccer system here in Chicago;a "selection." one of those guys purportedly flew in from brazil. and their right back already signed for an MLS team. so it mustve been like a reunion for them. past midnight in the stadium, the grounds keeper went over and helped me bring down the A-boards and while we were shooting the breeze he goes, "THOSE GUYS WEREN'T THE INFERNO. The current Inferno practice here and I've never seen any of these guys before." props to Todd tho, for actually taking the effort (and shelling out the dough) to put together a hyper competitive team."
-ebong joson
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Post by paulino19 on Aug 13, 2012 3:01:43 GMT 8
Ebong is exactly correct. That was a makeshift Inferno squad. The guys who played last night were not the real Inferno, but players from around the Chicago area and Player Development League teams ... so, these guys had every bit the same preparation time as the Azkals. The real Inferno are not very good and needed to be beefed up big time to provide good competition. The real Inferno players went back to school, so they needed to be replaced.
Regardless, the Azkals are still a national team, and still need to put up international standard performances on the pitch. In other words, they are a national team playing against a makeshift group of journeyman footballers, and they should have won convincingly. This really puts things into perspective.
But like the previous training camps, they can learn from this experience and use it to their advantage in the near future. They had the same issues in the Middle East earlier this year but still pulled through to take 3rd in the Challenge Cup.
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Post by locotes on Aug 13, 2012 7:03:32 GMT 8
I think Demit Omphroy caught my attention most(thats if I was looking at the right player) was it Omphroy playing the "right" midfield during the 2nd half?My Tv suck, I cant see faces. Anyway, He can move the ball and can go around players with it, the angle of his run and sudden change of direction confuses defenders. I think he will get a spot on this team.
Patrick Reichelt and Wolf was also impressive
Carli de Murga as always get my nod, he is one unlazy player on the field.
You guys are right, Misagh futsal mindset kills him on the field. The play always stops on him coz this crazy dribbling. When can he realize that the ball behaves different on the court and on grass?
I think Curesma wouldve done better than Sacapano. I hope to see him next match.
I understand Dejong and Christiaens did not get their A game, thats not their position.
I also agree on strikerborn about Chieffy's football IQ.... I dont even know where to start, I dont want to insult the guy.... PASS THE BALL CHIEFFY.
And lastly Araneta. Was Araneta playing?? hahahaha this guys is non-existent. I have 1 good advice for this guy. He should know when to give up his spot on the National Team, I hate to be harsh, but there is NO hope man.
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Post by thiscrazyloveofmie on Aug 13, 2012 9:13:53 GMT 8
Hi Everyone
Im new here to this board. Been lurking as a guest, and only registered now as I want to contribute. So hopefully, you will all make me feel welcome here.
Regarding Ian Araneta... I agree with calls for him to be dropped from the national squad. He has not scored an international goal since March 2012, hes form is below what is expected of a striker in a national team. Take the case of Scott MacDonald who was a striker for the Socceroos, the Australian Mens National team. He was a top goal scorer in the 2008-2009 Scottish Premier League but could not score a goal for his own country. Before the 2010 World Cup in South Africa, he was dropped.
That is just how it goes. Strikers are expected to score, or create scoring chances for his team. Ian, because of his poor positioning, poor work rate, lack of quality in front of goal, poor finishing, poor decision making (remember the 2nd leg in Manila vs Sri Lanka?), and his seeming inability to learn field tactics he needs to be dropped from the squad, PRONTO! If a striker cannot perform his duties, it is only right that he is dropped from the squad. This is the national team. And our objective is to improve our play, win tournaments, and promote/spread football awareness.
Chiefy Caligdong - I will try to be constructive here. From what I have read from previous posts, and the number of deleted accounts of rabid Chieffy haters, it is obvious now that this forum is a Chieffy lover. And the only type of constructive criticism that administrators of this board can accept, are words of praise and paeans of love and devotion to Chieffy.
It seems to me that many people in the media, especially football commentators, or one football commentator likes to put Chieffy on a pedestal. That he is some sort of local football messiah, who has fallen from the heavens to save Philippine football from this cesspool of mediocrity. Well.... he is not the messiah.
Look at the way Chieffy dribbles the ball. Notice how far away the ball is from his body when he is dribbling it? Now look at the way Phil Younghusband, Angel Guirado, Denis Wolf dribbles. Look at the way Dennis Cagara and Stefan Schrock dribbles. Observe them closely. No biases, look at it from a real football players perspective. And not from a blind fanatic. Do it. I will not say anymore, but just observe them. If your eyes are not too crusty from oversleeping, you will notice the difference. You will see true quality. And you will see mediocrity.
Now Chieffy overdribbles the ball. It seems to me that he likes to showboat, and try to beat multiple defenders and that is why he always loses the ball. He loses them too cheaply too. I dont mean to be harsh, but it needs to be said.
I noticed that Chieffy, as well as Ian Araneta, cannot read plays very well. When their teammates are trying to do a 1-2 passing, they will try to interfere and get the ball, ruining the play. I have seen Chieffy do this a number of times. During the game against Nepal, Cagara passed the ball to Chieffy, Cagara then quickly dashed around a defender expecting to receive the ball that never came. Chieffy instead tried to whack the ball from far away.
When Chieffy scored those two goals (his first international goals) against Timor Leste, I was so happy. Two goals from late in the match! That was awesome. I never saw the game though, as games were very hard to come by especially before 2010. I read it only on PinoySoccer. So I had no idea how good the players were, or how bad. But because of the 2 late goals by Chieffy, i thought he was a special player.
So when Chieffy was included in the squad for the 2010 Suzuki Cup, he was one of the players that I had high hopes on. Imagine my disappointment on his lack of playing time. Why would the current coach, Simon McMenemy, bench him? Barsales, Gener who were both over 35 years of age gets more opportunity, but not Chieffy?
So I asked around. I asked friends who were former players but were involved in local football in Cebu and even Davao. One friend, who will not be named, said that there talks going around that Chieffy was uncoachable. How? He could'nt be taught field tactics, and he only wants the ball to himself.
Chieffy has innate talents but he lacked the IQ needed. He could not be taught field tactics, and his quality is only good enough for the local leagues. McMenemy wanted to use his speed to cover runners but Chieffy does not have the ability to read the opposing teams midfield runners. His speed and agility would have been an asset but such a shame that his football IQ is too low.
So McMenemy benched him, because he will only ruin the defensive structure of the team. Imagine what would have happened if Chieffy played against Vietnam in 2010. Football will not be where it is today.
Notice how the team improved when Chieffy and Ian Araneta were subbed off in the 2nd half? Having both of them in the team is like playing with only 9 players against 11!
Thats it for now. Thanks again.
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Post by Wiking on Aug 13, 2012 10:03:28 GMT 8
...this forum is a Chieffy lover. And the only type of constructive criticism that administrators of this board can accept, are words of praise and paeans of love and devotion to Chieffy. Well I dunno how much vitriol you want people to spew against Chieffy to satisfy your own thoughts & feelings, but the previous posters have been open about their thoughts on the man and no moderator/admin or member has been "protecting" the player? The forum is for "mature" discussion but when another member is shut down and called names by a rabid hater(of a certain player) what is constructive about that? Eventually the discussion degenerates into name calling, as the former members banned by the Administrators were guilty of. As a matter of fact look at the sentence I've quoted from you above? You've already prepped for battle with your very first post! Those banned members are still at it in the PX forum still talking about this forum, still unable to accept that other people have differing opinions. If you cannot remember anything else being in this forum, remember this: "Mature discussion" By the way I agree with your assessment of both players! So hopefully, you will all make me feel welcome here. Well asking to be welcomed with open arms after your post below: ...this forum is a Chieffy lover. And the only type of constructive criticism that administrators of this board can accept, are words of praise and paeans of love and devotion to Chieffy. We DO still welcome you to UF! Enjoy your stay & I really like your point on Chieffy.
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Post by kangaroo on Aug 13, 2012 10:30:11 GMT 8
My take on this football IQ thing: I felt that our homegrown players have some catching up to do in terms of skill and more importantly their understanding of the game. Sure there are exemptions here and there but this is the result to my belief the lack of an established grass roots program. Our foreign based players are more technically and tactically sound because at a very young age they are exposed to quality trainings and coaches that hone them into good football players. They are taught on strategies and how the beautiful game is played. Add to that their exposure to high quality football either by watching or playing in them. This is not to downgrade our football coaches but lets face it we lack quality coaches with the technical know how as well as tactically. Perhaps only a handful. Thus result in tactical discrepancy. Notice Neil and Phil speak on how they analyze games when they do commentaries. They are very knowledgeable with the tactics and of the technicalities of the game. This is because they are brought up in a well structured grassroots program where skill and tactical knowledge is taught to them. And oh did you notice our better passing and fluidity in our 2nd half? Look at the those players and where they've learned their game? I may be ruthless but our homegrown players have to step up their game. I'm always a believer of putting the best team on the field. At this time where there is this influx of high quality talent, our National Team mainstays have to rise their level of play. If your not good enough I'm sorry but you have to move aside to a more deserving player. In the end its what is best for the team and country. Moving on, I'm quite happy to know that we face a beefed up Chicago Inferno since we want tougher tests right? Mr. Palami said this will be a chance for players to prove their spot in the team and for them to evaluate players. Will then lets do that and see which players are starter materials, subs and those that need to give up their spots. I hope the team take the positives in this game. After the US camp its time to put a serious team out there and build some cohesion and team play for our upcoming Suzuki Cup campaign. Funny how we fans are demanding right now. Perhaps because we see promise in the quality of our players now. This to my view is good for Philippine football and we all want the best for our team. PS. thiscrazyloveofmie: I guess we share the same view in the composition of the team and their play in the 2nd half against Chicago Inferno.ü Shouldn't a winger be good at giving quality passes and crosses too? I hope Schroecky will be available for the Suzuki Cup because he owns that LW position without a question.
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Post by thiscrazyloveofmie on Aug 13, 2012 11:06:35 GMT 8
To The Moderator
I did not mean to start off aggressively. Haha! I mean no harm. Thank you for the warm welcome.
To Kangaroo,
How many local coaches have received training abroad?
I heard that in Bacolod and Cebu they are teaching kids how to play posession football and quick passing. Opposite to what the Iloilo kids are doing which is kick and run.
I really hope that kids are taught the proper way of playing football. As well as tactics as what Kangaroo stated above. In a previous interview with Chieffy Caligdong with AKTV, he stated that he and Mark Caguioa have the same mentality. Mark Caguioa, the basketball player, likes to take the ball coast to coast and score tons of points. Caligdong likened himself with the PBA star as he also likes to take the ball coast to coast and score tons of goals.
This explains why Caligdong is selfish on the pitch. This is just not the right way to play, not the right mentality to have on the pitch, as well as coming from a "team captain" not the kind you would like to see. It also exposes his lack of understanding of football. Just proves that he really does have a low football IQ.
Thanks again.
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Post by thiscrazyloveofmie on Aug 13, 2012 11:25:13 GMT 8
To Kangaroo
Yes I believe that spot should be given to Schrock. We need someone like Schrock to terrorise that area of the pitch. Caligdong is lacking in that department, sending passes, through balls because of his low football IQ. Instead of sending crosses, he likes to run in to the middle like he is Arjen Robben. The ball is always played to James Younghusband, and we all know his quality thats why defenders pay close attention to him. But not to Chieffy. Opponents scout our team very well, they do not need to worry about the left side of the pitch only the right side. And they always place a tall, hefty but speedy defender on that side to take care of Caligdong, should the ball come to him. They know he cannot pass, but likes to dribble instead. He cannot pass to a rushing forward, because he does not know when to pass it, that is if he wants to pass the ball! So they let him dribble, and then cut him off. Too easy.
Notice how Caligdong cannot pass? I mean, he does not know when to pass, and where to put the ball. I have never seen him make a through ball. Only long balls that goes nowhere. But he could not make a through ball because of his lack of football IQ, he does not know where his team mates are going to run, or he does not know if his teammates are going to make a run or not! It is very frustrating when we are counter attacking. And when he gets stuck, he will pass the ball to a player behind him which is usually a defender. Thats fine, actually thats better compared to a year ago when he will always force the issue to the delight of Bob Guerrero. God, such a fanboy that guy is. A really smart player will know when to make a through ball. Chieffy is not a smart player.
He's gotta go. And give the captains armband to someone more deserving.
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Post by narko on Aug 13, 2012 13:49:06 GMT 8
Agree with a lot of the observations and comments made, excellent insights especially the point about footballing IQ. I guess the 2nd half says it all. In the 1st half we had Chieffy, Ian, Misagh and Wolf comprising the offensive line, perhaps along with Carli who overlapped quite a bit. 2nd half the offensive line consisted of Omphroy, Reichelt, Porteria and Wolf with Carli on the overlap for added numbers on the offense. Notice how the first group of players have been playing together for some time now? How many matches have those set of players played as a team by now? Yet, it was the second group of players who haven't had much time playing together that put in a more solid performance and even got a goal. Football IQ - it didn't need that much time for the 2nd half players to put in a better performance than the first half line-up.
I believe some hard decisions need to be made already, no room for sentimentality anymore when it comes to player selection. I'm pointing out sentimentality here because it's been several matches where it has been pretty obvious that when Araneta is in the line-up we are effectively playing with 10 men. Araneta may still be a decent player, but not anymore with this current set of Azkals. As mentioned by others, the mental/football IQ aspect of his game isn't good enough anymore. I mean if its already obvious to us arm-chair managers and tacticians here on this forum, shouldn't this observation be obvious to the professionals on the team's training and management staff? I don't see any reason for continuing to play Araneta ahead of others such as Reichelt or Omphroy other than for sentimental reasons. Perhaps Ref Cuaresma should start to get his chance as well. Sacapano may have more international experience than Cuaresma, but I think it's time that Sacapano's assured place as the keeper if Neil E and Roland Muller are not available should be threatened so that we either discover that Cuaresma is more than able to cover that role or Sacapano works harder to deserve the spot. As for Chieffy, I won't for now allege sentimentality in his selection as starter. He is experienced and has proven himself before, so he deserves a chance to prove he still has got what it takes (though perhaps no longer as part of the starting eleven). I agree with the observations here about his shortcomings, so if he doesn't step up in the next few matches, his time with the team should be running out as well.
If there is any benefit to the 3-1 loss, it's the fact it's been made clear where things stand, in terms of player quality and our playing style. It's good the Inferno made the effort to beef up the squad and fielded a highly competitive team. It showed that when faced with taller, bigger and more physical play from opponents the long ball is next to useless. It might be useful once in a while against our SE Asian opponents but the long ball should now be relegated to just a secondary or tertiary option within the match for our team just to mix things up.
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