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Post by nogoal on Dec 16, 2013 11:35:52 GMT 8
In the nearly 2 years since my daughter was contacted to consider playing for the PWNT, I have had the opportunity to follow the team as closely as I can from this far distance so here I offer my observation… This team will always be at a severe disadvantage. I’ll actually go out on a limb and say that their chances of beating the 3 powerhouse teams in the foreseeable future are nearly non-existent. It’s not that hard to imagine why. These are teams that have been developed from the grassroots. At any given time, a vast majority of their players have played together for a long time. They pretty much spent several years together creating synergy. Unfortunately for the PWNT, this is simply not a possibility, at least not to the level that is required to compete against these strong teams. Individually our players have what it takes, but it’s a sport that requires them to play together, to know and understand where everyone else is at any given time during the game. It takes years in club, years in high school and years in college to gain that kind of knowledge. And they have done that competing and practicing for several months every single year with their respective teams. They assess their failures and successes together throughout the year. That’s how they got better both individually and as a team. Thailand, Myanmar and Vietnam all have the advantage of doing that year in and year out. That is a near impossibility for the PWNT to develop if they are only to compete once or twice a year and without assurance which players will be available for any given event. Not to mention the little time they often have available to prepare. With a little luck in grouping this team will eventually and finally advance out of group stage. But what does that really mean when we’ll always be perennial losers to any of those 3 teams who are almost always guaranteed to advance. The only reason one of them didn’t advance during the past AFF was due to the inclusion of even stronger powerhouses from Japan and Australia. As we already witnessed, these NCAA girls are not likely to continue playing after they graduate college. It just doesn’t make sense for many of them. Playing for this team is a fun thing to do on someone else’s dollar as long as it doesn’t interfere with school. Or it’s something else to do once you are done with college and still finding work or are working but have the flexibility to continue doing so….but really…how likely are you to find situations like that. Its not sustainable. My daughter went through it and it never even became a matter of decision. As far as the coach, well…I don’t know him personally. He certainly has unorthodox methods of coaching. Whether it’s a good thing or a bad thing…well.. unfortunately for him it can only be judged by the results. Since the LA Vikings Cup, my daughter and I had sporadic conversations about this and all she could say was, “they will either learn to live with his system or die trying”. Every loss inevitably raises more questions. My 2 cents suggests that the win against Iran, and the close game against Thailand during the AFC simply benefited from the element of surprise. That element is now gone, and all the strong teams have responded that way strong teams do. The PWNT’s predicament now lays in the fact that those opponents showed that they are better at adapting to us than it is for our team to improve. Recent results clearly suggest that they have done that and we are unable to respond. The answer: we cant. Not anytime soon. What does it all mean to the PWNT? Personally, I don’t think the use of foreign players will ultimately deliver the desired results. This team is just too handicapped by the logistics. The schedules simply wont allow it to flourish. It’s a very tough challenge to overcome. The most sustainable approach is to develop a team from the grassroots. But how do you get the youth excited when the team is unable to achieve the success necessary to attain that? I don’t know. But Thailand, Vietnam and Myanmar figured it out. They too, once upon a time, had to deal with that severe disadvantage. Perhaps someday my observation will be proven wrong. I hope so, for that will be a glorious day for the PWNT. The biggest hurdle is $$$$$$. The PFF DOES NOT allocate a lot of money towards the womens program. In the US the youth national team coaches(BTW are well paid full-time coaches) begin identifying the top players at U14. These girls will be introduced, acclimated, but most importantly developed by the US Soccer Federation coaches for the next 7-8 years. The 13-14 year old girls will have 3 training camps that run a week long. For the next 3 years these girls will prepare for qualification for the 2015 U17 Womens World Cup and major international tournaments there after. The investment begins at an early age. Where the girls learn through years of playing together. As for the Fil-Am players never being able to defeat the likes of Myanmar or Vietnam. I have to call bull, it is well documented the Girls Youth Mexican National Team is loaded with Mexican-American players who were recruited from the US. These Mexican American players play and are trained by the top soccer clubs in the US. Just a month ago, the U17 Mexican Womens National coach rostered a team full of Mexican American trained players and defeated the U17 US Womens National team in PKs, eliminating the US from qualification into the U17 World Cup. If, they can defeated the US U17 Womens....it is very realistic for mixed team of Filipina and Fil-Am players to eventually win a major Asian Womens Tournament. It will NOT be overnight though! The foundation begins with identifying the VERY BEST Filapina or Fil-Am players and train them together for the next 7-8 years. It will take more than 1 or 2 training camps per year though. By U17 the US womens player pool have week long camps every other month. So, it is up to the PFF to invest in the girls at a young age if results are expected in the future.
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Post by xavifan on Dec 16, 2013 14:54:06 GMT 8
Thank you chriscor for a thoughtful and insightful post. I agree with all you said. Nogoal, I think you're missing the point. He/she wasn't saying that the girls don't have the potential to do it, but rather that the current setup will make it difficult.
I agree that the whole system needs to be evaluated because at the end of the day it is not fair to the players to be always short of preparation, however much everyone wants it to be otherwise. In addition I hope that the people running the program will also be watchful of discipline and select and reward those who are truly deserving. I read somewhere about some of the local players being on vacation, or maybe better rephrased as 'not training' , very close to the games. I hope the poster was incorrect but if not then I am hoping they will realize that that is unacceptable for a national team player and do better in the future.
Many of the remarks have come in "blaming" mode, and so I also hope that they will be able to weed out what is sincere constructive criticism, separate it from the "bashing" and use it to try to improve themselves. Chriscor is not the only one waiting for that great day for the PWNFT. I'm one of many others. Good luck to the team and thank you for your efforts.
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Post by chriscor on Dec 16, 2013 16:11:22 GMT 8
Hi Nogoal….
-Its no secret that money has always been an issue..and will continue to do so. That’s just part of the logistical problems that plague this team. Part of the reason they will always be at a severe disadvantage.
-So you pretty much echo what I just said. Most successful programs begin development at the grassroots level. Good. That’s obvious.
-Your comparison with Mexico is apples and oranges. You are talking about neighboring North American countries. Not countries separated by the largest ocean.
-You are talking about 2 countries with parallel school years for their youth, which is a huge handicap for the Philippines because they are on a different track. Additionally, the various US youth programs are loaded with players that have some Mexican heritage..at any age level. Much much more than players with Filipino in their lineage.
-You are talking about a soccer crazed Mexican nation that fully support their national team financially, both by the public or private sectors. And a Mexican nation that is much easier(and cheaper) to travel to than the Philippines. This is especially difficult for the girls who go to school in the east coast.
-Comparing US/Mexico and US/Philippines is completely absurd.
-I never said it can happen overnight. In fact, if you read my post again, what I said was, "The answer: we can't. Not anytime soon".
-The foundation will need to be established in the Philippines. Not with Fil-Am players. Because using your rationale, Markilizer and company will have to scout players in U-12 to U-14 if you expect them to train together for 7-8 years. Do you have any idea how many players at that level who appear promising suddenly fade once they hit high school? And on the same token, do you have any idea how many kids who looked dull during early development playing years suddenly find their groove and mold into top-notch players once they hit U16 or even high school? Not to mention kids that could just suddenly lose interest in playing for whatever reason. Its an insurmountable task if you think you can gather a bunch of kids around 12 yr olds in the US and keep them playing together for 7 to 8 years, all without financial support from the Philippines. The PFF certainly will not support it..therefore its impossible!
My daughter grew up through these various levels, and if you were to judge her by how she played when she was 12, you would have never guessed that she’d play for teams that would eventually win the U18 Div in Coast Soccer League, the CIF Foothill League Championship, become an NCAA D1 player and ultimately participate briefly with the PWNT.
Sorry. I respectfully disagree with most of your points.
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Post by nogoal on Dec 16, 2013 16:24:38 GMT 8
Thank you chriscor for a thoughtful and insightful post. I agree with all you said. Nogoal, I think you're missing the point. He/she wasn't saying that the girls don't have the potential to do it, but rather that the current setup will make it difficult. I agree that the whole system needs to be evaluated because at the end of the day it is not fair to the players to be always short of preparation, however much everyone wants it to be otherwise. In addition I hope that the people running the program will also be watchful of discipline and select and reward those who are truly deserving. I read somewhere about some of the local players being on vacation, or maybe better rephrased as 'not training' , very close to the games. I hope the poster was incorrect but if not then I am hoping they will realize that that is unacceptable for a national team player and do better in the future. Many of the remarks have come in "blaming" mode, and so I also hope that they will be able to weed out what is sincere constructive criticism, separate it from the "bashing" and use it to try to improve themselves. Chriscor is not the only one waiting for that great day for the PWNFT. I'm one of many others. Good luck to the team and thank you for your efforts. I understood what he/she is posting, my rebuttal is it boils down to $$$$. Want to improve the entire system, allocate more money on the womens and girls youth program.
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Post by nogoal on Dec 16, 2013 17:03:18 GMT 8
-The foundation will need to be established in the Philippines. Not with Fil-Am players. Because using your rationale, Markilizer and company will have to scout players in U-12 to U-14 if you expect them to train together for 7-8 years. Do you have any idea how many players at that level who appear promising suddenly fade once they hit high school? And on the same token, do you have any idea how many kids who looked dull during early development playing years suddenly find their groove and mold into top-notch players once they hit U16 or even high school? Not to mention kids that could just suddenly lose interest in playing for whatever reason. Its an insurmountable task if you think you can gather a bunch of kids around 12 yr olds in the US and keep them playing together for 7 to 8 years, all without financial support from the Philippines. The PFF certainly will not support it..therefore its impossible! My daughter grew up through these various levels, and if you were to judge her by how she played when she was 12, you would have never guessed that she’d play for teams that would eventually win the U18 Div in Coast Soccer League, the CIF Foothill League Championship, become an NCAA D1 player and ultimately participate briefly with the PWNT. Sorry. I respectfully disagree with most of your points. My daughter plays for SoCal Blues and her team won National Cup last April and she also plays on the ECNL team. It took my DD 1.5 years, but finally made the Cal South ODP 1999 State team, then made the Region IV team and just participated in the Thanksgiving Interregionals in FL. So I am well aware that players develop at different rates and pretty familiar with the various levels of the club soccer heirarchy. The very best USYNT players remain for the most part the best players as they get older, if they remain motivated. The players who got on the radar via their club coaches recommendation will only last so long, if they do not hold their weight. If they don't, eventually they are cycled out of the program. It's obvious there is a lack of funding in the PFF. It doesn't compare to the US. As for kids, playing together for 7-8 years without financial support of course NOT. That's why I posted the only way for a PWNT to be successful is with $$$$$ and it starts with that and without it, it's futile. But I would challenge you that if the USSF took the best Fil-Am players and created a player pool beginning at U14 for every birth year and there after. Groomed the girls as they do for the USYNT. I will bet they could beat the YNT from Vietnam and Mynamar in 5 years.
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Post by chriscor on Dec 17, 2013 2:19:21 GMT 8
Nogoal..it sounds to me like you and I both agree that in its current state, this experiment is destined to fail.
Collectively, the various challenges are too stacked for it to flourish. And now its apparently exacerbated by the eroding support for the coach, both from the fans and the players. And that could turn out to be the most difficult one to overcome.
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Post by nogoal on Dec 17, 2013 4:03:37 GMT 8
Nogoal..it sounds to me like you and I both agree that in its current state, this experiment is destined to fail. Collectively, the various challenges are too stacked for it to flourish. And now its apparently exacerbated by the eroding support for the coach, both from the fans and the players. And that could turn out to be the most difficult one to overcome. Anything will fail without support, IMO if the D1 Fil-Am are having difficulty winning. Local players will be insurmountable. It's only been 1 yr Coach Nierras has been using Fil-Am players. Supporters need to give it time to see if he will succeed. He hasn't even been able to get the very BEST College players to play for him. Former top players such as Nadia Link, current CAL player Fitzpatrick and Caprice Dydasco from UCLA looks Filipino. I'm sure there are more out there as well. Just because he was able to get D1 players on his roster doesn't mean he had the best players at his disposal. The greatest challenge will be convincing Fil-Am players who are on the National and Regional Pool levels to switch countries.
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markilizer
UF Scout
Official Women's Football Scout
Posts: 290
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Post by markilizer on Dec 17, 2013 5:32:34 GMT 8
Dydasco isn't Filipino
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Post by SpaceSocaPlayaX on Dec 17, 2013 5:54:44 GMT 8
Guys, the players weren't the problem.
Nadia Link, Lauren Battung, Natalie Sanderson, Kaitlyn Fitzpatrick, etc could have all been out there....and in the end, it wouldn't have made any difference whatsoever. With Nierras calling the shots, we were doomed to fail.
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Post by macduff on Dec 17, 2013 8:58:30 GMT 8
I understand Malaysia pays their WNT about $700.00 per month plus modern condos, transportation and other benefits. This is not a huge amount of $$ but the PFF won't pay it anyway. I am not saying that they should pay it but telling educated young women that they should put school, family, marriage, children, and career on hold for the pride of running onto a football field in Myanmar is tough. Perhaps if they could tell the players that they would be playing in the Philippines in front of cheering fans and family that might help keep a team together, but asking a woman to put her life on hold for months/years at her own expense is a very difficult prospect if there is no reward or even appreciation for the sacrifice.
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Post by xavifan on Dec 17, 2013 16:23:48 GMT 8
I understand Malaysia pays their WNT about $700.00 per month plus modern condos, transportation and other benefits. This is not a huge amount of $$ but the PFF won't pay it anyway. I am not saying that they should pay it but telling educated young women that they should put school, family, marriage, children, and career on hold for the pride of running onto a football field in Myanmar is tough. Perhaps if they could tell the players that they would be playing in the Philippines in front of cheering fans and family that might help keep a team together, but asking a woman to put her life on hold for months/years at her own expense is a very difficult prospect if there is no reward or even appreciation for the sacrifice. That is the same sacrifice that every other Filipino athlete has to make, so the women's football team does not have an exclusive on that.There are many other teams, some with much better results, that have not gotten the kind of publicity that this team has or even the number of slots they got for the Seagames (20 +), which is a lot especially considering they were only in contention for one medal. The dragon boat team is a world champion team and they didn't even get to go. Again my point is NOT to put this team down (I am happy for them that they were able to go !) , it is to stress that it does noone on the team any good to have this attitude of being "api" or put down or "not appreciated". As an athlete who has been there I can tell you that if you are doing this for "appreciation", or in anticipation of playing in stadiums packed with cheering fans in the Philippines you might as well just quit. Very few athletes, even SEAG gold medal winning ones, are appreciated in this country. Anybody know the name John Baylon? Many time gold medal winning judoka --- he has had a superior SEAG career spanning more years than some of these girls have been alive. Totally unappreciated. I can name many more.To begin with, to consider playing for the national team a "sacrifice" is to get off on the wrong foot, and to feel you are entitled to "appreciation" won't let you last long. Don't get me wrong, it's great if you can get it, it just should not be the motivation here. Many people want this team to succeed, and many comments here are made in the hope that they will take some constructive criticism and move forward. Yes it takes commitment and work, nobody is entitled, and this is something you don't "tell" people to do, they should do it because they want to.
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Post by strikerbon on Dec 17, 2013 17:34:06 GMT 8
to be honest, before the SEA Games tourney started, i expect them to last until the semi-finals because of the hype they've gotten in their Asian cup tourney in which they lost narrowly to Thailand and beat Bangladesh and Iran. sadly, after i saw their performance, i can say that they're still far behind from our neighboring countries except to the likes of Indonesia.
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Post by SpaceSocaPlayaX on Dec 17, 2013 20:08:38 GMT 8
The whole SEA Games campaign was a mess. No question about it. I've highlighted that in my most recent post("Misadventure in Mandalay: The PWNT was doomed from the start").
For the AFC Qualifiers, this group prepared for 4-5 weeks together prior to the tournament and it showed. We were able to defeat Iran and play Thailand very close, which I don't believe was a fluke. Now fast forward to the SEA games... These girls prepared MAYBE for 4-5 days prior, which we can all attest is not enough preparation for a competition like the SEA Games. We weren't ready to play and the outcome was proof.
These girls have the passion and WANT to continue on with the program....but not with Nierras as head coach.
Having Nierras as head coach of the Philippine Women's National Team is like having an AYSO coach try and coach a Div1 NCAA University team.
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Post by jonny on Dec 17, 2013 21:20:55 GMT 8
Joana Houplin arrived the night before first match, Kat Lim and Catherine Barnekow arrived after first match against Myanmar.
Many saying that the locals are not good enough but a Pinay Futbol select team played drew Malditas 1-1 just before Asian Cup, why was not any of those players included in the squad ?
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Post by SpaceSocaPlayaX on Dec 17, 2013 21:42:25 GMT 8
UAAP restrictions...The league won't allow those girls to play for the National Team while the UAAP season is on-going(same as the NCAA in the states). That is why none of the NCAA girls could play in the AFF Women's Championships in September.
And even if they were given permission to play, those UAAP girls won't play for Nierras.
It's a mess.
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