I believe he signed a 2 year contract which will take him to the end of 2012, about the time of the end of the next Suzuki Cup. If he finishes his contract, we can make comparisons then on how our team does, compared to our previous campaign in the last Suzuki Cup.
In fairness, to Coach Weiss, despite the poor record of our national teams under his tenure, he does provide some advantages which have benefited our team, including his contacts with both the German and Japanese football federations, which help paved the way for our training camps in both countries.
I am not sure what German football philosophy you are referring to, but the last time I heard the Germans are not famous for defensive disorganization. On the contrary, they won their World Cups, and built their reputations on an organized defensively solid system of play, something that our team has not shown any evidence of since Coach Weiss took over.
Since Dr Frankenstein took over, the defense that brought us along has vanished into thin air, with virtually the same personnel, even better in some cases, we have lost that winning trademark.
The offensive/attacking mindset of his is good... if you have the right personnel. We don't, as can be seen in some of our matches. The Doctor refuses to recognize this, perhaps he doesn't know any other way to play?
His eye for players for his team: Is spotty at best. His distrust of some of the former senior players borders on the ridiculous. Start/play offensive personnel(from Germany) instead of former senior members of the NT who happen to be just what is needed for the position(the defensive debacle in the SEAG).
To surrender/look depressed after the 2nd loss in the recently concluded SEAG borders on the amateurish. He is the bedrock of these kids, he was the first to crack! Leadership material? You answer that.
Yes people would say we should've given more time for the SEAG boys, but seriously, I've watched some of those games over and over again. I barely saw any tactical rhyme or reason. Seriously Jacques van Bossche at RB, Jason de Jong at CB and a converted midfielder at LB and SEND everybody else to attack? Don't argue, see the win loss column and against whom?
A kid scores a brace and you don't start him? Mark, who one can argue, was the best long passer in the series and he doesn't start either?
Patience with the coach? He is almost 50% done with his contract I'll be patient with that, though that doesn't bode well with our AFC CC hopes. AND no I expected no medals or trophy just a good showing for the SEAG boys but:
1st loss to Timor Leste EVER. A loss to Brunei a team, despite the score, we dominated, why? I don't blame the players, I blame the aimless game plan. Who makes the gameplan?
If we do well in the AFC CC it will be IN SPITE of the coach, not because of.
Is there a need to replace Coach Weiss? No, because we can't afford a new one so we stick with the "hand me down" coach err, Doctor. Until then, we grin and bare it.
Let the coach stay. I'm not a fan of his approach but I respect what he's trying to do I understand his main role is to create a system, a philosophy AND THIS TAKES TIME and i respect that. If the DFB trusted him as the right man to introduce the their philosophy then I say give him time to get the job done. Anyway, Philippine football isn't going anywhere at the moment so it's worth the risk. (The only bright spot is the progress of the UFL!)
A realistic solution was mentioned on Mike Limpag's piece: have a more thorough preparation under have a different coach for the U-23. That's it. I believe it's realistic and doable and with Dan Palami spearheading this change it's going to happen. ...
I totally agree with these two. From what I've heard, he has done wonders for football in Rwanda.
I, for one, still trust him. I think he has done more rights than wrongs. (mas marami syang nagawang tama kaysa mali) Might I remind you that, as far as I can remember, he has not lost one crucial match yet with the senior Azkals. Well, except for the Kuwait match, but that was expected...
Also, and he has already asked for this, let us hear his side before we complete lose trust in him.
I think if/when coach Weiss gets the team in his ideal condition and still loses, that's when we should think of letting him go.
1st loss to Timor Leste EVER. A loss to Brunei a team, despite the score, we dominated, why? I don't blame the players, I blame the aimless game plan. Who makes the gameplan?
Again, it has been previously said that these teams have better grassroots programs than us, and U23 competitions are showcases of the state of grassroots programs. And belittling these "weak" teams is exactly what led Vietnam to their defeat back in the Suzuki Cup.
It might be of interest for you to learn that Dr Weiss was a former coach of the Rwandan U17 team. Not the senior not the U23 but the U17. Thats the coach handling our senior team.
"Belittling" who said that? Did you watch the Brunei game, Laos etc? It wasn't about belittling, we physically out played some of those teams, but as I mentioned its not the players, the "gameplan" whatever it was was below par.
Grass roots? yes we need grass roots but our players were not lacking in skills, they needed to be molded by a proper coach. A proper coach not someone who plays pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey for his player lineups.
Loose a crucial game? Do we wait then to see the light?
This grassroots argument is a cop out for Weiss. How many believes that our team did not have skill? Can we honestly say, all the other teams have waaay better, or more skilled players than the Manny Otts, Jason de Jongs, Jacques von Bossches, Jeffrey Cs, Porterias and Beloyas?? That we deserved a 1 win all loses record? Its not the skill of our players in question, its the way the coach molded this team. This is my beef. We were not out-skilled, we were OUT COACHED, much like the Singapore friendly. OUT COACHED. But hey lets wait until his contract ends, we can't do anything about it anyway... Meanwhile I hope he doesnt put Nate Burkey in at Left Back in the upcoming AFC CC.
(If you’re on the U23 team and reading this post or reading these boards, STOP now. It will do you no good. This is a place for opinionated fans, not for the players we support.)
I’ve been silent on this U23 tournament because for me it’s the senior team that represents the best we have and the best of our opponents, and the U23 team is in the end a poor indicator of how the senior team turns out a few years later. Take heart – there’s a lot of data to support that assertion. I haven’t seen any of the games but have watched the highlights whenever available, and I’ve read enough of the comments and news stories to make a fair assessment.
The results are disappointing. No two ways about it, nothing to spin, like “gain experience,” or work-in-progress, to sugarcoat the disappointing overall performance. I stand by my conviction that this coach is not the one to take the Azkals to the next level of Pinoy football. After the last few seniors games I figured that he shouldn’t be fired until the end of the Suzuki Cup, but now I think that it’s an excellent time to let him go. Now. The expectations were for this U23 team to do well in the group stage, certainly to advance to the next stage. Not only were the expectations not met, the results were disastrous.
Who is responsible? The overall consensus is that we have players who, individually, could challenge their counterparts in the other teams. I don’t know much about the other teams so I don’t know how true this conventional wisdom is. Maybe we’re putting too much faith in our Fil-foreigners. Maybe we have a false sense of prowess. Maybe. It’s hard to believe otherwise because in many years past, this is the type of performance we would expect. Can we expect the same type of performance now that we have a significant number of foreign trained players? Either the other teams caught up quickly to negate the improvements we’ve achieved with the foreign trained players, or the foreign trained players are not playing to their potential.
I believe the results are not indicative of what this team can truly do given the right leadership in coaching. I like assessing performance in terms of whether expectations are not met, met, or exceeded. Throughout the year one can break down expectations in terms of whole tournaments and individual games, and more subjectively on how the team played. And all throughout the year the coach has met expectations, yes, but just barely. Advanced against Mongolia in the Challenge Cup, but winning one and losing one. Advanced in the group stage, but as the runner up. Beat Sri Lanka in World Cup qualifying first stage, but the away game was a tie 1-1. Any single one of these, by itself, would be excusable. But taken in aggregate, it shows a pattern of performance that’s mediocre at best. This coach has to go.
As for the DFB, they're not blind to this. It's getting to the point that the "support" they've given can be interpreted as a hinderance to the advancement of Pinoy football. If this is the support they're giving us, I would gladly say thank you, but no, thank you.
All I'm going to say is that based on all the comments here there are both points for and against Weiss. Some are willing to be patient and some are not. I'm willing to be patient simply because for now I put a premium on stability for the project. While Coach Weiss has had mixed results, I would not characterize his brief (yes, brief because if you're building a team and establishing a system, it takes more than just a year) term as disastrous. It may not have been as expected or what we would want it to be, but to be objective it isn't a hopeless situation (yet).
Changing coaches is going to be tantamount to going back to square one. Dropping the German program altogether will definitely be the case. Then our players go through another period trying to adjust to the system and style of play the new coach wants them to play in the same way that the players had to learn (and are still learning) and adjust when Weiss first took over. Then we get disappointed again and the cycle continues. For those who follow Real Madrid I am sure you know what I mean. Heck, it is commonly acknowledged that even a top notch manager like Mourinho needs at least two seasons before he gets his teams playing the way he wants to and Weiss is surely no Mourinho (very, very far from it) and the talent pool Weiss has to work with isn't close to what Mourinho gets to work with. So let's step back a bit and perhaps take another look at our expectations.
There is no easy answer to this issue. I have my opinions on this but at the end of the day my attitude is that I will trust Mr. Palami. He cares and has put his own personal money where his mouth and his heart is, so I trust him. His reaction to our disappointing SEA Games campaign is what I wanted to hear from him. He may not have all the answers and he may make mistakes, but the bottom line for me is that his heart is in the right place and I'm good with that because we can be assured that he will do his best for the good of our national squads.
By the way, let's be objective also. Agree, the coach shouldn't have been tinkering too much, there's much to be said regarding the line-up he chose to bring, the defense needed sorting out and he should have been more pragmatic in his approach to the matches against the stronger teams. However, don't pin the loss to Brunei on the coach alone. 27 shots and only one went in. Yes, the boys played their heart out but 27 shots and one goal only. Let's be reasonable, at least for that match you can't pin that on the coach. As for the Laos match, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Mark H and Beloya start at the bench for that one? Mark H made the 2 assists for Beloya's equalizing and winning goals. Guess it wasn't the coach's decision to get those two into the game in the second half because if he did isn't that an example of a coaching adjustment that had a positive impact and outcome for our team on that match? Guess the coach also didn't give instructions to the players how to set themselves up and how to play the match when Manny Ott got red carded with 30 minutes left in the game.
Not starting an argument here, just sharing a sense of perspective for consideration. It's okay to criticize guys, but let us also give credit where credit is due.
I am on record in saying that I wasn't expecting much from our young U-23 squad because of our lack of preparation but given the 5 games played in our group, I was expecting an improvement from game to game from the 1st to the last game. But what actually happened, was after having a promising start against favored Vietnam, we somehow managed to get worse(I consider our win against Laos as lucky as we were getting outplayed and only managed to have 2 goals in the end) , even managing to be defeated by teams we have no business losing to. Our final game against Brunei, was especially disappointing, as we have beaten this team many times in the past, with just local players. Brunei don't have any reinforcements from abroad, are mush less experienced than our players, and did not have much preparation time either. They were hastily assembled after the FIFA ban on Brunei was lifted and were not part of an excellent grassroots development program like some of the other countries have done. You can't really blame our players, as they have more skill and experience than the players from Brunei, or some of the other teams in our group, so that leaves only one person to be held accountable for that loss, Coach Weiss.
I suggest you read all the comments here from the beginning of Coach Weiss'es tenure before making comments like that. His style of coaching has not changed from his very first game against Mongolia where we were equally vulnerable to counterattacks as we have against Brunei, so you should start from there.
Accountability is just as important in sports as it is in business or government. Otherwise progress will be difficult. Constructive criticism is essential if we expect to improve in the world stage.
Post by Striker_Manager_and_Owner on Nov 18, 2011 9:16:32 GMT 8
regarding your concerns:
1. Traditionally, central defenders mature later than midfielders or strikers. Some players are converted CB's who were midfielders first. These are young men who haven't settled in at any position yet.
2. FIFA requires you in any competition to have 3 GK's. Why? Because if both the backup and the starter gets injured and you have only 2, are you going to field a defender as a GK? Its mandatory.
3. This is a development program. We are not here for the short term. The PFF and the German Football federation is looking for a long term sustainability of players and this results in having to develop players and have them experience playing different positions in tournament pressure.
4. I have no idea myself.
5.Well said. I think the way that the whole Matt going back to the Philippines in the middle of the tournament thing vindicates the Jason de Jong movement.
6. Again, these are young players - let them experience playing in a different position in a tournament - where the pressure is the most. Often they will fail but this is how brilliant players are discovered.
7. Come on, the level of play in the UFL is not to par of our Asian, not to mention SEA counterparts. Thats why Guirado is thinking of playing at J2, and not even J1.
Thank you for presenting your POV. I'm glad that we 'agree to disagree' on some of the points.
1. That's true. Central Defenders do mature later than other field players. Also true that it is not uncommon to players converted from other positions to play the Central Defender role however, these players were converted because they have the necessary skills to play in that position. Coaches often seen the quality of some players that they decided to have them play in that position. Our situations however is not in that same scenario. I believe that Coach Weiss converted some of the players not because they are much better playing in that position but rather out of necessity of not having the quality that he wants for that particular role or not enough players playing that role.
2. FIFA competitions does have a specific rule that you must have 3 GKs in your 25 man lineup. This tournament however is AFC sanctioned and have their own rulings in terms of lineups. I don't have the necessary sources but from what I know in SEA games, NTs must have a maximum of 20 players in the squad. And looking at the lineup of other participants in SEA games, all of them have just 2 GKs.
3. All age-group tourneys are part of the developmental program of any NT on any sport. More common term for that is the grassroots program. Just like everyone here, I'm not looking for overnight success. We all know that's never going to happen. Having the players play different positions to test out the players potential on that position is not uncommon as well. But that is something that must be done during practices and test matches but not to experiment on it during the tourney proper. Yes, we don't have much time to practice. But the Japan training probably gave Coach Weiss enough time to determine the positions of the players that he wants to field.
4. Poetschke is actually 24 years old like what one of the member of this forum said.
5. Thank you.
6. That might be what I've failed to appreciate in this whole 'fiasco'. The lack of maturity of most of our players as they are mostly a group of U20 than U23s. They'll have more time to consider what their potentials are and probably what the idea of our U23 competition campaign really is. That is to identify ourselves.
7. Could be that's the case why Coach Weiss has decided not to give quality minutes to some of our local boys since they don't have the necessary skill set yet to play at this level simply because of the quality of training that our players receive here.
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. And like just that, poof. He's gone." -Keyser Soze
Weiss apologizes for SEAG debacle, bats for earlier preparation
JAKARTA - Hans Michael Weiss, the German coach of the U-23 team that stumbled to a last-place group finish in the 26th Southeast Asian Games football competition, apologized for the team's dismal campaign, but also stressed the need to prepare much earlier for the next SEAG in 2013.
"The boys gave their best, but it was not enough," Weiss said Monday night shortly after Brunei dealt the Philippines its fourth loss in Group B. "Again, I sit here with empty hands and want to apologize for this campaign. We cannot change it at this moment."
Despite landing in a relatively lighter group, the U-23 Azkals won only one of their five matches to finish at the bottom of their group with only three points. The team's lack of experience and cohesion, as well as a weak back line, were exposed in the tournament, and Weiss was the first one to admit it.
"We have to draw the right conclusions and prepare much, much better than we did this time, with a very clear focus on the physical," Weiss explained. "Because physically, we're not strong enough, especially against Myanmar. To speak nothing of Thailand, Indonesia, Singapore. Totally different. We're far away from that.
Myanmar, which finished second in Group B behind Vietnam, gave the Philippines its worst loss, a 5-0 spanking that officially booted the junior Azkals out of contention.
The pressure of performing well, Weiss surmised, could have also added to the boys' poor results. "They were overwhelmed having to carry the expectations of the country on their shoulders. I'm still behind the boys. I'm trying to do my best. I'm also very disappointed.
"I'm the one who will get the bad talk and the trash talk, and I am ready for that. But I don't know if (Carlo) Ancelotti or another manager could have done much, much better. I don't think so.
Assessing the Philippines' situation at the junior level, Weiss did not mince any words. "I think this is the level of the Philippines right now. We tried our best. It just wasn't good enough."
The last game against Brunei, which had only managed a single draw before facing the Philippines, clearly showed what Weiss meant. Despite controlling possession and having numerous scoring opportunities, the team lost 2-1, with goalkeeper Roland Muller fumbling the ball after a Brunei free kick which led to an easy score. That goal proved to be the game-winner as the Philippines failed to find the equalizer in the second half.
"I think this game (against Brunei) will reflect the whole misery of the tournament," Weiss said. "I think we played them well in the first half. We had chance after chance. We had 21 shots on goal. [Muller] made a crucial mistake. It's unfortunate that he dropped the ball after a very easy free kick. He should normally have saved that one.
"We must understand, as pitiful as it might be at this moment, we are not on this level now. I sent Jason De Jong to the back line. But why? It was clear. The other options are riskier. With our weak defense, it was a miracle they didn't score more goals. But we should have finished the game in the first half."
Other teams in the ASEAN region, Weiss noted, already have a system in place where young players move up together through the junior ranks. By the time they debut for their under-23 teams, most of them have already played with each other for several years.
"Myanmar and Vietnam are going through the under-13, under-15, under-20 ranks. They have a totally different set-up. We have to see how we can improve the level to be ready in two years," the German coach said, while noting that in contrast, the Philippines began building its team only early this year.
"We built the team in January. We tried to scout for candidates for the under-23. Jeff Christaens, Carli De Murga, Muller, they're at a certain level, but they could not connect with each other. Before the tournament, after we came back from Japan, I saw that we could not expect too much. You cannot catch up in a short period of time with all the weaknesses that are in the team."
Fifteen players will still be eligible for the next SEAG in Myanmar, and this time Weiss wants them to start training early and more earnestly.
"The preparation must start tomorrow. I recommend that during the course of each year, we have a team that will have three, four, five camps in the Gulf region or in Europe. That would give us 10 to 12 weeks in 2012 and maybe three months, four months in 2013."
Weiss also said it's not right compare the U-23 team with their senior counterparts and expect the same results. "The Azkals are already on a certain level. They are professionals. With the under-23, we have to do much, much more."
It seems Weiss is pointing out the lack of preparation and cohesiveness of the team that caused the disastrous SEAG campaign. And he was entirely looking at the under-developed local players compared to other nations programs with the U15, U19 etc. IMO, he maybe right about the grassroots but what my big problem with him is the in-game adjustments and choosing the right players for the game.
do you guys agree even the Ancelotti's, Mourinho's or the Ferguson's will not progress with this U23 team? I am certainly not, maybe he might be good in developing a grassroot system for us but as a coach I'm not really convinced.
papajamba: listening now to simone rota - across the line podcast
Sept 16, 2019 23:48:32 GMT 8
BoyBacolod: As long as Ricky Yanson is professional to Ceres FC and extends support to the Azkals in general (Ceres Azkals in particular) during home games, he can be PFF president in my book. Much better will be reconciling with Leo, though that idea is Farfetch'd.
Sept 21, 2019 23:07:36 GMT 8
BoyBacolod: Kaya fans wishing that Ricky Yanson wins the PFF presidency is akin to GMA fans wishing that Congress and President Duterte will not renew ABS-CBN's franchise.
Oct 24, 2019 21:10:39 GMT 8
BoyBacolod: We will wait for the basketball and volleyball ASEAN teams and then we compare their reception to that given to the football delegations, where ALL ASEAN nations participate. Now there will be foreign scrutiny in every move of PHISGOC.
Nov 24, 2019 23:20:26 GMT 8
BoyBacolod: DDS trolls underestimated the SEA football community. Having no prior exposure to football culture, they dismiss any and all so-called sabotages as destabilization plots, to the point that they do not support the teams, especially the women.
Nov 27, 2019 15:25:36 GMT 8
Passerby: That's awkwardly worded.
Mar 6, 2020 21:09:41 GMT 8
Jun 3, 2020 11:29:52 GMT 8
nil: anyone have any ADT FC's contact?
Jun 3, 2020 11:30:08 GMT 8
Caz: Hey everyone! I hope you're all healthy and well! Philippine football is just about to pick itself up from these quarantine days so I'm looking forward to getting this forum up and running again!
Sept 27, 2020 0:39:31 GMT 8