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Post by hollywoodazkal on Jan 10, 2012 13:58:03 GMT 8
The Philippine National Team is nicknamed the Azkals so in essence, the Azkal players are a representation of our National Team. Therefore, any reference to the term "Azkals" must only be used when the ACTUAL national team is playing. Other use of it disparages the moniker which was hard-earned by the players that played in the pre-Azkal years.
Furthermore, the casual use of it only adds confusion and misunderstanding from the increasing number of novice football fans since everyone automatically associate the Azkals with our National Team. So when the "Azkals" lose, casual fans will immediately think our national team sucks and isn't good enough to beat 3rd Division teams when in reality, the case is different. Simply making the excuse that the term Azkal has multiple connotations is a poor justification of the significance of this moniker because it represents our National Team. Azkals does not equal Philippine football and Philippine football does not equal Azkals. It is of utmost importance that the education of the fans must start now while the popularity of football is in its infancy because it'll be like climbing Mt. Everest to teach them the differences when football fever reaches 106 degrees.
Lastly, I doubt other countries liberally use their national team's monikers to represent their non-national teams. In other words, to be called an Azkal is something that must be earned.
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Post by cypher210 on Jan 10, 2012 14:13:46 GMT 8
its all good bro if you guys dont understand what im trying to say. but i just have one question. what does the national team aka azkals signify or represent then? saying only the philippines is a little broad. saying it represents PFF kinda falls to the idea i had because PFF represents philippine football. do u understand where im coming from? its like saying manchester united signifies manchester football as a whole because they were the team/club that stand out the most of the time. but that doesnt necessarily mean man u equals man city or any other FC in the city of manchester.
whatever. i could care less if you guys think im wrong about having this train of thought. its just an abstract thought that you guys counter with concrete ideas lol ;]
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Post by badleftfoot on Jan 10, 2012 23:09:07 GMT 8
And now, for the Korea 'friendly', it is called 'Azkals United' ... they might as well be called Pinoy Futbol United ... but Azkals means Philippines Football. It is a common Pinoy custom, to use the a specific item name or brand as the generic name of the same thing. toothpaste = colgate, aspirin = tablet medicine (pabili po ng aspirin! anong klase? yung tylenol po) ... motorcycle = Honda ... jeep = car, so Azkals = football ... cultural thing.
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Post by cypher210 on Jan 11, 2012 6:36:09 GMT 8
And now, for the Korea 'friendly', it is called 'Azkals United' ... they might as well be called Pinoy Futbol United ... but Azkals means Philippines Football. It is a common Pinoy custom, to use the a specific item name or brand as the generic name of the same thing. toothpaste = colgate, aspirin = tablet medicine (pabili po ng aspirin! anong klase? yung tylenol po) ... motorcycle = Honda ... jeep = car, so Azkals = football ... cultural thing. well according to the counteragrument, the word azkals can only be used by the MNT alone even though the nickname turned out to become a generic word nowadays. like seriously its funny how they get so technical yet they call a generic thing with a specific name associated with it. i guess i should "xerox" this thread... i mean "photocopy" lol =]
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Post by hollywoodazkal on Jan 12, 2012 12:43:05 GMT 8
its all good bro if you guys dont understand what im trying to say. but i just have one question. what does the national team aka azkals signify or represent then? saying only the philippines is a little broad. saying it represents PFF kinda falls to the idea i had because PFF represents philippine football. do u understand where im coming from? its like saying manchester united signifies manchester football as a whole because they were the team/club that stand out the most of the time. but that doesnt necessarily mean man u equals man city or any other FC in the city of manchester. whatever. i could care less if you guys think im wrong about having this train of thought. its just an abstract thought that you guys counter with concrete ideas lol ;] I completely understood your logic which was why I made a rebuttal. Evidently, you still failed to comprehend the reasoning I provided. Let's try this again, shall we? The National Team (aka Azkals) represents The Philippines hence the term "national." The National Team does not represent the PFF since the PFF is simply the governing body of football in the Philippines. Also, the Azkals does not represent all the member associations under the PFF such Cebu F.A., Davao F.A. or Negros Occidental F.A. In other words, the Philippine National Football Team and Azkals are mutually exclusive. Like I stated in my previous post, they should ONLY use the Azkal name when the entire team is comprised of the actual national team players. It should NOT be used when the team is combined with non-national team players because it is a false representation of what the Azkals stands for. As you're well aware, everyone associates the Azkal nickname with our national team so when it's used casually by calling every Philippine football team - that plays a foreign team - Azkals, then it's an utter deception. I hope this clarifies any confusion you may have had.
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Post by hollywoodazkal on Jan 12, 2012 13:13:39 GMT 8
And now, for the Korea 'friendly', it is called 'Azkals United' ... they might as well be called Pinoy Futbol United ... but Azkals means Philippines Football. It is a common Pinoy custom, to use the a specific item name or brand as the generic name of the same thing. toothpaste = colgate, aspirin = tablet medicine (pabili po ng aspirin! anong klase? yung tylenol po) ... motorcycle = Honda ... jeep = car, so Azkals = football ... cultural thing. well according to the counteragrument, the word azkals can only be used by the MNT alone even though the nickname turned out to become a generic word nowadays. like seriously its funny how they get so technical yet they call a generic thing with a specific name associated with it. i guess i should "xerox" this thread... i mean "photocopy" lol =] The Azkal name evolved into a generic word because no one stopped it from being so. No one had the time and energy to bother correcting every person that used it inaccurately. The PFF and Palami had numerous opportunities to make an official statement of the proper use of the Azkals nickname before it got out of hand but elected not to. The football powers-that-be figured that it's best to ride on the coattails of the Azkals' success so they can continue the momentum of interest in football and so that football games played against foreign teams will attract sponsors and decent crowds. Because let's admit it, if you omit the name Azkals, a game against foreign teams will lack appeal and draw. Moreover, the general media, with their lack of football knowledge, also figured that their football articles will not generate much interest without the mention of the Azkals. So their lack of football knowledge was easily transferred to fans with lack of football knowledge. This is where the vicious cycle began. This may sound demeaning but it's the truth because I and many people I know were guilty of it. People use the generic terms because they didn't bother properly educating themselves or no one bothered correcting them. In today's society, people are cognizant of the correct terms however they still simply choose to use the generic words because it's what they grew up with and what they're comfortable with. If you know what is right, then why continue saying what is wrong?
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Post by cypher210 on Jan 12, 2012 14:16:22 GMT 8
well according to the counteragrument, the word azkals can only be used by the MNT alone even though the nickname turned out to become a generic word nowadays. like seriously its funny how they get so technical yet they call a generic thing with a specific name associated with it. i guess i should "xerox" this thread... i mean "photocopy" lol =] The Azkal name evolved into a generic word because no one stopped it from being so. No one had the time and energy to bother correcting every person that used it inaccurately. The PFF and Palami had numerous opportunities to make an official statement of the proper use of the Azkals nickname before it got out of hand but elected not to. The football powers-that-be figured that it's best to ride on the coattails of the Azkals' success so they can continue the momentum of interest in football and so that football games played against foreign teams will attract sponsors and decent crowds. Because let's admit it, if you omit the name Azkals, a game against foreign teams will lack appeal and draw. Moreover, the general media, with their lack of football knowledge, also figured that their football articles will not generate much interest without the mention of the Azkals. So their lack of football knowledge was easily transferred to fans with lack of football knowledge. This is where the vicious cycle began. This may sound demeaning but it's the truth because I and many people I know were guilty of it. People use the generic terms because they didn't bother properly educating themselves or no one bothered correcting them. In today's society, people are cognizant of the correct terms however they still simply choose to use the generic words because it's what they grew up with and what they're comfortable with. If you know what is right, then why continue saying what is wrong? so theres no reason to be mad over the misuse of the word since it became a generic word for football in the philippines. you dont see any of the english or americans getting mad over the japanese for calling apartments mansions. or you dont see any filipinos get mad over americans calling a remote area boondocks when it literally means mountain. thats what my point is... u cant be mad over the use of this word because you also misuse other words. whether u like it or not, the word will be mis/used by people because the majority of people already coined the word with the idea of philippine football. i dont think the football fan minority have the power to correct a significantly huge majority with little or low football IQ since the majority is already comforable mis/using the word. go have fun correcting a misused filipino word first. then lets correct the word azkal ;] lol
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Post by hollywoodazkal on Jan 13, 2012 13:19:07 GMT 8
so theres no reason to be mad over the misuse of the word since it became a generic word for football in the philippines. you dont see any of the english or americans getting mad over the japanese for calling apartments mansions. or you dont see any filipinos get mad over americans calling a remote area boondocks when it literally means mountain. thats what my point is... u cant be mad over the use of this word because you also misuse other words. whether u like it or not, the word will be mis/used by people because the majority of people already coined the word with the idea of philippine football. i dont think the football fan minority have the power to correct a significantly huge majority with little or low football IQ since the majority is already comforable mis/using the word. go have fun correcting a misused filipino word first. then lets correct the word azkal ;] lol After I further simplified my reasoning, you still don't get it. Also, I'm puzzled how you came to the conclusion that I was mad about the usage of the Azkal term. The tone of my rebuttals above did not display any hostility or resentment, so your thinking that I was mad was your own false presumption and misinterpretation. I wasn't mad that the public is using the Azkals erroneously. I was merely disappointed because ample opportunities were missed and still aren't being taken by the PFF and Palami to rectify the issue. So how could the public know the difference if they're not being corrected? An official statement must come from the top so unless the football officials continue to approach this issue with a laissez-faire attitude, then it will never be remedied. You and some football fans consider this a non-issue, that it's no big deal so you simply accept it even though it is wrong. You fail to see the significance of why it's important to make a clarification between the proper and improper usage of the Azkal word. I have clarified my position why they should not continue using it incorrectly, knowing how much this misrepresentation confuses the football fans and the general public. But if you wish to continue believing your false logic, then that's your prerogative. We'll simply agree to disagree. For your information, I stopped using the incorrect words a long time ago when I learned of the proper terms. Only a fool would continue to use the wrong words after they've learned and know what the proper terms are.
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Post by cypher210 on Jan 13, 2012 14:08:56 GMT 8
so theres no reason to be mad over the misuse of the word since it became a generic word for football in the philippines. you dont see any of the english or americans getting mad over the japanese for calling apartments mansions. or you dont see any filipinos get mad over americans calling a remote area boondocks when it literally means mountain. thats what my point is... u cant be mad over the use of this word because you also misuse other words. whether u like it or not, the word will be mis/used by people because the majority of people already coined the word with the idea of philippine football. i dont think the football fan minority have the power to correct a significantly huge majority with little or low football IQ since the majority is already comforable mis/using the word. go have fun correcting a misused filipino word first. then lets correct the word azkal ;] lol After I further simplified my reasoning, you still don't get it. Also, I'm puzzled how you came to the conclusion that I was mad about the usage of the Azkal term. The tone of my rebuttals above did not display any hostility or resentment, so your thinking that I was mad was your own false presumption and misinterpretation. I wasn't mad that the public is using the Azkals erroneously. I was merely disappointed because ample opportunities were missed and still aren't being taken by the PFF and Palami to rectify the issue. So how could the public know the difference if they're not being corrected? An official statement must come from the top so unless the football officials continue to approach this issue with a laissez-faire attitude, then it will never be remedied. You and some football fans consider this a non-issue, that it's no big deal so you simply accept it even though it is wrong. You fail to see the significance of why it's important to make a clarification between the proper and improper usage of the Azkal word. I have clarified my position why they should not continue using it incorrectly, knowing how much this misrepresentation confuses the football fans and the general public. But if you wish to continue believing your false logic, then that's your prerogative. We'll simply agree to disagree. For your information, I stopped using the incorrect words a long time ago when I learned of the proper terms. Only a fool would continue to use the wrong words after they've learned and know what the proper terms are. i wasnt concluding that you were mad. i was addressing my last post to pretty much everyone who were obviously bitter over the use of the word Azkals from Azkals alyansa and started or showed their disappointments over the name they used during the charity game on this thread. as for me, i could really care less about the significance of monickers since those can represent multiples trivial things. yes i said it... trivial. its true that the word has a history just like any other monickers. but its not really significant and has nothing to do with how they MNT play or why they play. i think the more significant name for them is philippine MNT which is the legal name of the azkals. there would be a problem if they use philippine MNT on something that is non-PFF sanctioned match. i only use the word azkals when im on this forum or when im trying to explain something azkal-related like who Ian Araneta from the Air Force is to someone who is non-football fan. I dont even use the word when i talk about the philippine MNT to my American friends that are soccer fans.
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Post by hollywoodazkal on Jan 14, 2012 12:19:58 GMT 8
i wasnt concluding that you were mad. i was addressing my last post to pretty much everyone who were obviously bitter over the use of the word Azkals from Azkals alyansa and started or showed their disappointments over the name they used during the charity game on this thread. as for me, i could really care less about the significance of monickers since those can represent multiples trivial things. yes i said it... trivial. its true that the word has a history just like any other monickers. but its not really significant and has nothing to do with how they MNT play or why they play. i think the more significant name for them is philippine MNT which is the legal name of the azkals. there would be a problem if they use philippine MNT on something that is non-PFF sanctioned match. i only use the word azkals when im on this forum or when im trying to explain something azkal-related like who Ian Araneta from the Air Force is to someone who is non-football fan. I dont even use the word when i talk about the philippine MNT to my American friends that are soccer fans. Well, can you blame the fans in this forum for being bitter about the improper usage of the Azkals? I explained it before and I'll explain it again - when a team is formed to play against foreign teams in an exhibition or charity game and "Azkals" is used in any form, the general public will automatically assume that it's the National Team even if it's only sprinkled with NT players. The Azkals ignited a decades-long dormant passion for football in our country. Also, the Azkals brought excitement, pride and honor. They accomplished all these because they played competitively and won against teams that used to frequently embarrass us with 3+ goal differences. Consequently, the word "win" was finally becoming a part of the Philippine football vocabulary. We were no longer the whipping team of Asia. In short, it was the hard work of the Azkal players with their needed sacrifices that lead to the creation of our current national team's nickname. So, to nonchalantly and improperly use Azkals to dub every non-national team playing foreign teams is an affront to their triumphs and achievements. It denigrates the significance and worth of being called an Azkal. Does Australia call their non-national teams Socceroos? Does Brazil call their non-NT's Canarinho/Seleção? Does Cameroon call their non-NT's Indomitable Lions? Does England call their non-NT's The Three Lions? Does France call their non-NT's Les Bleus? Does Germany call their non-NT's Die Mannschaft? Does Italy call their non-NT's Azzurri? You get where I'm going with this? Well of course you won't mention the Azkal term to your American friends. They would not have a clue of what you're talking about. Our team isn't a football powerhouse. We haven't earned the right to be called simply by our nickname.
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Post by cypher210 on Jan 14, 2012 13:21:41 GMT 8
i wasnt concluding that you were mad. i was addressing my last post to pretty much everyone who were obviously bitter over the use of the word Azkals from Azkals alyansa and started or showed their disappointments over the name they used during the charity game on this thread. as for me, i could really care less about the significance of monickers since those can represent multiples trivial things. yes i said it... trivial. its true that the word has a history just like any other monickers. but its not really significant and has nothing to do with how they MNT play or why they play. i think the more significant name for them is philippine MNT which is the legal name of the azkals. there would be a problem if they use philippine MNT on something that is non-PFF sanctioned match. i only use the word azkals when im on this forum or when im trying to explain something azkal-related like who Ian Araneta from the Air Force is to someone who is non-football fan. I dont even use the word when i talk about the philippine MNT to my American friends that are soccer fans. Well, can you blame the fans in this forum for being bitter about the improper usage of the Azkals? I explained it before and I'll explain it again - when a team is formed to play against foreign teams in an exhibition or charity game and "Azkals" is used in any form, the general public will automatically assume that it's the National Team even if it's only sprinkled with NT players. The Azkals ignited a decades-long dormant passion for football in our country. Also, the Azkals brought excitement, pride and honor. They accomplished all these because they played competitively and won against teams that used to frequently embarrass us with 3+ goal differences. Consequently, the word "win" was finally becoming a part of the Philippine football vocabulary. We were no longer the whipping team of Asia. In short, it was the hard work of the Azkal players with their needed sacrifices that lead to the creation of our current national team's nickname. So, to nonchalantly and improperly use Azkals to dub every non-national team playing foreign teams is an affront to their triumphs and achievements. It denigrates the significance and worth of being called an Azkal. Does Australia call their non-national teams Socceroos? Does Brazil call their non-NT's Canarinho/Seleção? Does Cameroon call their non-NT's Indomitable Lions? Does England call their non-NT's The Three Lions? Does France call their non-NT's Les Bleus? Does Germany call their non-NT's Die Mannschaft? Does Italy call their non-NT's Azzurri? You get where I'm going with this? Well of course you won't mention the Azkal term to your American friends. They would not have a clue of what you're talking about. Our team isn't a football powerhouse. We haven't earned the right to be called simply by our nickname. you made it sound like theyve won the WC or something. i understand that theyve never gone this far before. to be simply called by their nicknames like those NTs you mentioned before you need to at least win a fifa/afc/asean tournament or make it to the WC to validate the monicker...u know like something that would put the team's name out there to be recognized by the football world. i think thats a good way to earn the right to be simply called by the nickname. and theres a team called socceroos in the UFL.. doesnt that make them aussies disappointed because theyre using their nickname? obviously not and they could care less. team socceroos have nothing to do with the aussies' national team yet they used the same monicker eventhough the aussies have established their name in the football world. i think it should be the same thing for the nickname azkals. anyone can name their team whatever they want even if they use the same nickname.
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Post by hollywoodazkal on Jan 18, 2012 13:30:03 GMT 8
Well, can you blame the fans in this forum for being bitter about the improper usage of the Azkals? I explained it before and I'll explain it again - when a team is formed to play against foreign teams in an exhibition or charity game and "Azkals" is used in any form, the general public will automatically assume that it's the National Team even if it's only sprinkled with NT players. The Azkals ignited a decades-long dormant passion for football in our country. Also, the Azkals brought excitement, pride and honor. They accomplished all these because they played competitively and won against teams that used to frequently embarrass us with 3+ goal differences. Consequently, the word "win" was finally becoming a part of the Philippine football vocabulary. We were no longer the whipping team of Asia. In short, it was the hard work of the Azkal players with their needed sacrifices that lead to the creation of our current national team's nickname. So, to nonchalantly and improperly use Azkals to dub every non-national team playing foreign teams is an affront to their triumphs and achievements. It denigrates the significance and worth of being called an Azkal. Does Australia call their non-national teams Socceroos? Does Brazil call their non-NT's Canarinho/Seleção? Does Cameroon call their non-NT's Indomitable Lions? Does England call their non-NT's The Three Lions? Does France call their non-NT's Les Bleus? Does Germany call their non-NT's Die Mannschaft? Does Italy call their non-NT's Azzurri? You get where I'm going with this? Well of course you won't mention the Azkal term to your American friends. They would not have a clue of what you're talking about. Our team isn't a football powerhouse. We haven't earned the right to be called simply by our nickname. you made it sound like theyve won the WC or something. i understand that theyve never gone this far before. to be simply called by their nicknames like those NTs you mentioned before you need to at least win a fifa/afc/asean tournament or make it to the WC to validate the monicker...u know like something that would put the team's name out there to be recognized by the football world. i think thats a good way to earn the right to be simply called by the nickname. and theres a team called socceroos in the UFL.. doesnt that make them aussies disappointed because theyre using their nickname? obviously not and they could care less. team socceroos have nothing to do with the aussies' national team yet they used the same monicker eventhough the aussies have established their name in the football world. i think it should be the same thing for the nickname azkals. anyone can name their team whatever they want even if they use the same nickname. You're evidently having difficulty understanding basic and simple logic. I provided well-known national team nicknames so that you'd be familiar with my samples AND so that you'd have a better comprehension of what I've been trying to say AND so that you'd understand why the aforementioned countries do not nonchalantly allow their nicknames to be used by their non-national teams. Just because our NT hasn't achieved great heights doesn't mean the national team's nickname should be used casually by non-national teams. I find it amusing why this very plain, straightforward and uncomplicated logic is hard for you to understand. I suppose I could've used the nicknames of the national teams from countries that's never won any major tournaments such as Armenia, Malta, Azerbaijan, Burundi, San Marino, Burkina Faso, Andorra, Belize, Togo, Bermuda, Montenegro, Haiti, Grenada, Bahamas, Barbados and Guadeloupe. Would it have made a difference? Again, you failed to see the underlying principle and your attempt to provide the UFL's Team Socceroos to support your assertion was weak because as you're well aware 1.) the UFL team does not play in the Australian league 2.) the UFL team does not represent Australia's national team in any way, shape or form and 3.) the UFL team is not even a non-national team of Australia. So these three reasons tells you that there's no mistaken identity, whilst we've created a false impression and total misapprehension because our NT and wanna-be Azkal non-NT teams are called Azkals. Consequently, we easily and continue to confuse our casual football fans. I would presume that any country with a professional football league will allow their local teams to be called whatever they wish - even if the name is similar to other nations' national team nicknames because there's no direct relationship. However, if a local football team calls itself the national team's nickname, then this creates conflict, misunderstanding and confusion which is what's happening in Philippine football now.
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Post by cypher210 on Jan 18, 2012 13:54:52 GMT 8
i dont really understand why you make it such a big deal about that nickname. i guess i dont really understand the concept of nicknames because im from the US where there are hundreds(or maybe thousands) of sports teams with alot of them sharing the same nicknames.. from pro to collegiate to amateur(highschool) and none of them, not even their fans, have problems with sharing the same moniker. i told you already nicknames are only trivial things. if u really dont want anyone to use the nickname azkal at all, go copyright it for the MNT, knock your self out bro.
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Post by stellarboy on Jan 18, 2012 16:44:40 GMT 8
I have sent cypher210 a warning for inciting a debate over the national team's monicker. This is a clear violation of forum rules.
Cypher210, you went straight to induce misunderstand with our fellow members on how the "Azkals" name became an identity for the national team, and how it symbolized the nature of the sport that had existed in the country for decades. You are also beginning to impose personal attacks among our fellow members.
Do not force us to ban you.
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Post by Wiking on Jan 18, 2012 19:59:23 GMT 8
Forgive me for butting in "moderator business" friend stellar: Both these members had different points of view and actually have been quite civil in their arguments and counter arguments. Neither has gone over board in their rebuttals(remember sheajane, vimjonk etc?). I cannot see where cypher210 has "induced misunderstanding". On the contrary, he only stated his beliefs, whether you or anyone agrees or not, he stuck with his conviction and was not malicious, mean or arrogant. I actually agree with some points of both sides arguments. As for "personal attacks", I do not see one. If you mean cypher210's statement of, "...knock yourself out bro." It is an American slang that means "go ahead". Let me enlighten you to its proper connotation or use: Stellar: Hey Wiking since you and Dyan Castillejo has got a date tonight, can I borrow your xbox720? Wiking: Sure bro, knock yourself out, but take care of it though, it cost an arm and a leg. Example 2 Cypher210: Say stellar can I use the Bat car and your Batman outfit for the halloween party tomorrow? Catwoman's gonna be there and you know how i love her and her outfit! Stellar: Sure Robin, knock yourself out, but make sure you don't drink and drive! There are many Fil Americans here to tell you if I'm right or just pulling your leg. Cypher was just being sarcastic something I'm guilty of most of the time(please don't ban me!) If at all, you should have just closed the thread earlier. To cool everyones emotions, check out this great new site! Lotsa Philippine football stuff!! wikingandtheazkals.blogspot.com/Hurry click on it!
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