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Post by locotes on Jun 8, 2012 2:47:49 GMT 8
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Post by stellarboy on Jun 8, 2012 6:09:35 GMT 8
This is in relation to Rick Olivares' article on the issue of local players who don't make the cut during NT training camps, leaving frustrated and angry that they committed themselves not to join should they get called up.
I suspect he directly referred this to Anto Gonzales and the Stallions players.
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Post by materkush on Jun 8, 2012 7:07:22 GMT 8
they need to bring there A game so they can join our NT.how can could u join a NT if your talent is not up to a standard that our current team.mahirap kasi sa ibang tao they cant just accept the fact na hinde sila up to the standard.kaya tayo meron mnga eurpian players na naglalaro sa team para mapursige at galingan nang atin local base player.hinde toh laban nang mnga race ito ay laban nang buong NT at nagtrtry out to gun a crown and to progress in this sport.kung papayagan natin maging ganyan ang banat at attitude nang player parang paurong ang nangyayari imbis we are progressing e baka paatras ang gusto nila para makapasok lang sa team.i dont know if this people wants to win trophy or just wanted the fame na hinde nila makukuha kung hinde naman sila ganon kagaling.maging practical naman sana tong mnga taong toh wag sana silang maging ipokrito at wag sana sarileng interest ang umiiral.
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Post by cebujames on Jun 8, 2012 7:57:19 GMT 8
sana mag tulongan nalang kayo at wag makitid utak. buti nga sa inyo eh, naglalaro kayo sa UFL. eh dito samin, andami pang mas maling sa inyo eh sa local tourney lang naglalaro. ang kikitid nmn ng utak.
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Post by shanks608 on Jun 8, 2012 8:49:57 GMT 8
Also read about this one yesterday.. I don't want to comment coz i really have no idea what happened. But walking out and vowing never to play again for the national team because they didn't make the cut??? These guys have got some ego problems in them. Yes, they might have some skills, they might play well in the UFL but if another player's skill is head and shoulders level above them then of course that player would be picked over them. Not just because your some big shot in the UFL and people think your eligible for the national team automatically means you'll be picked. We are in the stage of Philippine football where we need the best of the best. Players who can be up par with the level of those European players. IMO the local players now who are aging above 20 & trying out for the team will never make the cut because skill wise and exposure they are less likely to improve unless they pull off something extraordinary.. It's the next generation that we will see some good local players. We might see some from the U22 but my bet would be in the U14 squad. It's thanks to the rising football awareness and the developing local league where at an earlier age they are exposed to competitive games and have more chances to improve. But for now, foreign players will still have the majority of the Nod.
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Post by Wiking on Jun 8, 2012 10:37:00 GMT 8
Well lets see, wasn't it Indonesia(or Malaysia, gotta look up the article) in an interview with the coach recently stated he was looking at 60+ players to make up his club against the Philippines and the Suzuki Cup!? From Mark Hartmann's prima dona complaints in the LTC '12 and the players above even Angelo Verheye when he declined playing w/ the senior team at the AFC CC because he didn't believe he will be allowed to play an actual game. Filipino players have to start thinking "nation" before self! What the hell is going on? Just recently it was an "honor" to be chosen for the NT, now its play me or I'll never attend a selection process again? Wow!
From the top of my flat head: How about creating an Azkals "B" team for the development of younger(not necessarily under 23) players? Biggest hurdle is cost though...
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Post by veryfatchocobo on Jun 8, 2012 12:28:56 GMT 8
Also read about this one yesterday.. I don't want to comment coz i really have no idea what happened. But walking out and vowing never to play again for the national team because they didn't make the cut??? These guys have got some ego problems in them. Yes, they might have some skills, they might play well in the UFL but if another player's skill is head and shoulders level above them then of course that player would be picked over them. Not just because your some big shot in the UFL and people think your eligible for the national team automatically means you'll be picked. We are in the stage of Philippine football where we need the best of the best. Players who can be up par with the level of those European players. IMO the local players now who are aging above 20 & trying out for the team will never make the cut because skill wise and exposure they are less likely to improve unless they pull off something extraordinary.. It's the next generation that we will see some good local players. We might see some from the U22 but my bet would be in the U14 squad. It's thanks to the rising football awareness and the developing local league where at an earlier age they are exposed to competitive games and have more chances to improve. But for now, foreign players will still have the majority of the Nod. This was already discussed, but the problem with this is that the Azkals aren't a club team. The national team shouldn't be for growing our youth or locals, anyway. Look at Spain, Italy, etc. They don't train together at all before international friendly match or WC/continental qualifying, unless it's not during club season. Furthermore, teammates from rival clubs (Spain with Barcelona and Real Madrid) that would be blood brothers one week ago have to be best budz the instant they enter their national team's camp and vice versa for club teammates that become international rivals. All national teams have at most only 3 weeks to train for major tourneys such as the WC, Euros, etc. In other words, based on how football countries manage their growth, this has to come from the club level and not at the international level. It should be the UFL that grows the national team, and not the national team itself. Club teams have the opportunity to keep their teams for 9 of the 12 months within the year. They should recruit enough players to make a B and C team, as well as a youth academy. Hence why the big 4 have higher quality club teams when compared to their respective national teams. I can't imagine England, France, Italy, etc. beat teams such as Barcelona, Real Madrid, or the Manchesters at any point in time (Spain is in fact IMO FC Barcelona, since 7/11 of their starters are from Barcelona). All national teams including ours base our team on characteristics and quality from their club teams, which is why Weiss picks foreign players over the locals (bar Caligdong, he'll forever be a beast after fully recovering from his injury ). However, this doesn't mean that the national team should be neglected. The manager is the person responsible for setting the standard as to how his respective country's domestic clubs should play at their highest level. IMO, one way this will be achieved is by extending the UFL past Luzon and Cebu and into the more football-related islands like the Negros, Leyte, etc. The more Filipinos playing at the Philippines' highest league, the better. This increases candidates for the national squad. They will all contribute to making the league much better than it already is, especially if we touch the football-hungry parts of the Philippines in Ilo-Ilo and Bacolod. The second way has to come in the form of an ACL or AFC Cup spot. If certain teams and players are proven on Asia's two highest continental club tournaments, this will further give the Philippines as a nation legitimacy in its national team. Schrock didn't get his credentials during his time with the Azkals, it was with his signing to Hoffenheim at Germany's highest league. Phil's reputation was heightened by the fact of his education at Chelsea as well as Neil's, at a big 4's (now big 6 lol) youth academy. These international club tournaments would also market UFL players to come to bigger leagues such as the J-League, or even Europe. This can also bring, as an example, Malaysia's and Indonesia's best to our league, which will help us understand football knowledge by exchanging soccer culture. Look at Shinji Kagawa. He made his name at his J-League club nationally and in the ACL, was one of the guys responsible for taking Borussia Dortmund to the top of the (arguably) 3rd biggest league in the world (Bundesliga) twice, and now will possibly be a starter for the top 3 club in the entire world in Manchester United. Now he's seen almost as a god not only to all of Japan, but to all of his national team, too. I bet everyone here, this guy will be so good before WC '14 that all teams (including the biggies like Spain) will double manmark him. So yeah, what I'm trying to say is that national team clout and quality is judged and controlled at the club level, and not by the national team. Loyola Meralco is taking the lead for the UFL by participating in the Singaporean cup (w/e it's called). It's a personal dream to watch a Filipino club team make the ACL and shine amazingly amongst Asia's biggest guns and perhaps play against the biggest clubs in the world at the international FIFA Club World Cup with teams like Barcelona. Imagine Marwin Angeles (his potential is amazing) be talked about throughout Asia to the point where teams have to double man mark him every game (Messi gets 4-man-marked every game ). Nonetheless, even if I disagree with how you attack where growth should be prioritized, I do see your point. The UFL just started ~2 years ago. No way it'll get international exposure yet. Our player quality in the national team has definitely not reached a plateau of quality. Only way for this to be solved in the short term is by your method, Wiking.
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Post by narko on Jun 8, 2012 13:30:22 GMT 8
Well said veryfatchocobo. There's still a long way to go. The key is the grassroots program and club system (you can include the school teams in this). The grassroots program especially should be designed to feed the national team. That's the model of most footballing countries wherein Spain, Germany and the Netherlands are the most effective examples of how the development of their very young players produces quality that later on allows them to seamlessly fit into their national teams despite plying their football trade in different clubs and leagues around Europe.
That's why for me, from a long term and strategic perspective, the most important position the PFF should focus on is not the national team coach. It should be a technical director who will oversee a holistic and fully integrated national football program that covers football development for kids as early as 4 yrs old and up through the various age levels towards the senior national team.
A coach can only work with the resources he has available to him. The technical director or some official like that is the one responsible for putting in place and implementing policies and programs that will "create" and hone these resources/talents.
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Post by wenden96 on Jun 8, 2012 13:50:51 GMT 8
citing biases and the lack of opportunities"
why you guys miss that one, that is there reason....in which this is what some of us you called crabs feared.....what will the local do or compete with what you called standards against our reinforcement....first of all training is not sufficient enough to compete the guys, so is it the player's problem or the football program as a whole??? Im with their symphaty IF IT IS TRUE...but I dont like there action (stating that they will not return)...for me they can use this as a 1 point lesson to their personality or a tool to teach to the other upcoming local that they must prepare whatever will happen on the camp...use this frustration as tool to practice more though the odds are low (technically), and use this as a lesson to teach the youngster......
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Post by leoisiah on Jun 8, 2012 15:19:02 GMT 8
Good thing is that there is still one more friendly, and it is against a relatively weak Guam team. And I hope Weiss makes the unused players happy by sending them into the game.
So to make the players happy, future training camps and friendlies must always include a game against a super weak opponent, so that Weiss may experiment with the seldom-used players. (So is this the idea behind the future game against the Virgin Islands? Hihihihi.)
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bigfoot
UF Scout
European Scout
Posts: 142
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Post by bigfoot on Jun 8, 2012 22:20:54 GMT 8
Well lets see, wasn't it Indonesia(or Malaysia, gotta look up the article) in an interview with the coach recently stated he was looking at 60+ players to make up his club against the Philippines and the Suzuki Cup!? From Mark Hartmann's prima dona complaints in the LTC '12 and the players above even Angelo Verheye when he declined playing w/ the senior team at the AFC CC because he didn't believe he will be allowed to play an actual game. Filipino players have to start thinking "nation" before self! What the hell is going on? Just recently it was an "honor" to be chosen for the NT, now its play me or I'll never attend a selection process again? Wow! From the top of my flat head: How about creating an Azkals "B" team for the development of younger(not necessarily under 23) players? Biggest hurdle is cost though... wiking, angelo declined because at that time he was almost 2 months away from home and club . it's not nice to question his commitment to the national team as even within the azkal first team there is no player who spend so much time away from school and home as he and jacques ( 6 months in less then one year) ; it costs them one year in school and they are not even professionals ; they don't get the attention and financial support as the azkal first team . so i wonder who the true committed players are ?
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Post by mrbiik on Jun 9, 2012 7:12:14 GMT 8
i hope this story is not true..ika nga blind item lang...sobrang sour grapes naman yan sino ba nagsasabi sa kanila na mas magaling sila sa mga current players..mga nanay,gf or asawa ba nila... eh sabi din nang nanay ko mas pogi ako kesa kay richard gomez naniwala naman ako :-)....seriously though look we got YH brothers, etheridge, mueller, schrock,cagara, lucena, ott,mulders,wolf if any of disgruntled players THINKS they are BETTER than those guy, hey what are they smoking coz i want some :-)....then we have demurga, sabio,,moy,dejong,angeles,christiaens,dorlas,reichelt,bahadoran to me these are the young guns which i hope will develop and we can rely on them for a long time...lastly we have gier, guirado brothers,caligdong,araneta,sacapano older players but still starts for the team.. take your pick who you want to leave off the team,myself the only one i want out is araneta so are they complaining that araneta dont deserve to be on the squad??? heck kung matapang talaga sila sabihin nila kay araneta yan next time they face off against air force sa UFL ...anyway i hope di talaga nangyari ito..since we need every good players out there..hopefully they would be given good advice by their nanays :-)
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Post by strikerbon on Jun 9, 2012 8:32:07 GMT 8
i don't want to see Araneta,Margarse,Gener and sorry but maybe Sacapano in our future tourneys
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Post by materkush on Jun 9, 2012 19:45:40 GMT 8
strikerbon agree ako sayo bro un mnga position na un ibigay nalang sa mnga batang under 23 like christian etc de k namabigit kasi ang hihirap.our grass root is starting palang so we would depend muna sa atin half euro.sayang un mnga position nila para bench warmer lang sila na kung pinasok is lagging nadadapa un goally naman masyadong maliit we need to produce a taller goally like 6 foot hinde nmn ganon kahirap maghanap nang ganon katankad dito sa pinas.
the problem is un mnga taga province that they cant accept that most of our local players are not that good compare to our fil-euro.iba sasabhin ganito at ganyan just accept and continue to train hinde un magaact like a kid na sasabhin hina sila maglalaro.they should prove there self first before talking smack na kesyo ganito at ganyan.wala naman nakukuha sa isang bagsak e like our P4P king pacman nagsimula sya sa wala as in gulong nang bike ginagamit nya sa pagsisit up ngyn asan na sya (tawag dyan may pursige at may vision na magging world champ sya) he is included already na one of the highest paid athlete sa buong mundo.
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Post by akosiabab on Jun 9, 2012 22:52:03 GMT 8
mga g_____! hindi nyo ba nakikita na naka focus lng cla sa fil-euro? na dapat din cla mag focus at e enhance ang local based players natin. hindi naman cguro cla galit pero ito cguro sa tingin nila na magandang paraan para makita natin ang mga hinaing nila na ang local players hindi din dapat pabayaan!
(edited for profanity. --stellarboy)
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