|
Post by cjeagle on May 26, 2013 11:33:54 GMT 8
Thanks teddysdad and caz. There is no better way to gauge the progress of the grassroots program than from those who are directly involved in the program itself. It gladdens my heart that football finally is taking off over there, as I remember a time when I was a young soccer player playing in Metro Manila, when soccer opportunities outside the school system was very limited. It must be difficult with all the kids wanting to play now to find venues in crowded Metro Manila where they can play the game. The nice thing about football though, is you can still play a version of it, practically everywhere, including on basketball courts(futsal) as well as on the street.
|
|
|
Post by stellarboy on May 26, 2013 12:36:23 GMT 8
Thanks for the refreshing messages teddyandtimmysdad and Caz. I hope and pray your children will do well in their future endeavours. Well, we go back to the main issue, that issue of the socio-political shenanigans that still plague the mentality of our highers-up in the PFF and in Pinoy sports in general. I am glad that the football grassroots are reaching out to the public school sector. And not just in soccer. I have read in the news here at home about the PRFU (the rugby fed) are developing Rugby 101 programmes that would be applied soon on public schools and depressed areas in the provinces. So we are seeing that it has not been about Jr. NBA that has since been spreading in the media. I am loving it, really. On the flip side, though, I became in fear about the initial report of teddysdad. I sense that today and maybe sometime in the future that there is (and there will might be) a hidden (or obvious, depends on the situation) agenda among selecting players to national teams - officials discriminating against well-off local kids from private schools and the budding UFL Youth Academies, and the so-called "Fil-Fors" from Europe and elsewhere, just to give way to not-so-well off "brown" kids in public schools and marginalised communities who grew up in the Kasibulan and those from "Kamag-Anak Inc."? That regardless of skill? Not on my watch! As a few of us have expressed, selecting players to national squads must be on merit, not because of race, political affinity, personal circumstances, or even commitment to the team. Why are you committing so much to the team if you don't perform? I strongly oppose to the neo-socialist agenda a few of our sports officials are dictating. I just hate it when someone gets booted out because of a prevailng principle to promote their grassroots programmes that do nothing but lift up their selfish personal agenda and "save face". These should be eradicated altogether.
|
|
|
Post by buddha on May 28, 2013 9:15:35 GMT 8
Narko, what you said should be highlighted in gold.
I think everyone, myself most of all, have been trying to put their finger on what it is exactly that should be our gauge for player excellence and you're right. Abso-effing-lutely right: the answer lies in Europe. We have to produce players good enough for European clubs and in your post you've excellently pointed out why.
If we are able to consistently do that then I'd go so far as to say we've made it as a footballing nation. (Making the World Cup shouldn't be the standard. North Korea has played in two World Cups already and yet I don't think anybody admires them for their football. But I digress.)
So yes, narko, I'm with you all the way. Producing local players good enough for Europe should be our aim and from where I stand that's not going to happen anytime soon.
|
|
|
Post by Caz on May 28, 2013 11:00:25 GMT 8
People keep saying that we should dominate our region first before thinking of taking the world on. Why stop there, though? Why not shoot for the moon? Why not strive to be one of the best in the world? The nice thing about this football renaissance is that we're practically starting from scratch in an era of the modern game with the benefit of nations who have blazed the trail before us. We can model and modify our national program after the absolute best in the world. Perhaps these countries hoping to have their mark on the Philippines' football development may have recognized this and want to prove that their way is the best? Or maybe they are investing in a foreign pool that may be cheap to hire in the future (you know, "outsourcing")? Who knows? The challenge the PFF faces is, of course, funding... and making sure we don't fall into the trap of repeating other countries' mistakes.
|
|
|
Post by buddha on May 28, 2013 16:38:55 GMT 8
Let me argue a bit more on why getting homegrown players to Europe is a better goal than qualifying for the World Cup.
The following countries have much to tell:
1. North Korea, Honduras, New Zealand, and El Salvador. All share the honor (or, in my opinion, the misfortune) of qualifying for the WC twice. A good number of these countries players are based in domestic leagues (with a few exceptions of course). Has playing in the WC turned them into world class footballing nations? Far from it.
2. Iceland has no WC experience and yet in their national team roster only three players come from the domestic league. With the rest of their homegrown national team players plying their trade in decent clubs around Europe I think it's safe to say that Icelandic players are respected. Their highest FIFA ranking was a 37 and are currently in the top 100 in the ELO ratings. All this from a country with a population less than Angeles City.
So let me make a rash conclusion here: aiming for the WC isn't going to do us any good. It would just be a waste of energy and precious resources, resources that could be directed to better long term development.
-------------
There is a concept in anthropology and sociology called cultural lag. This is what happens when cultural ideas cannot keep pace with real time change. I see something similar here. Football in the Philippines is progressing at a rate not in proportion with our expectations and demands.
Is the growth of Philippine football too fast or not fast enough? Somebody tell me.
|
|
|
Post by Caz on May 28, 2013 23:09:33 GMT 8
There is a concept in anthropology and sociology called cultural lag. This is what happens when cultural ideas cannot keep pace with real time change. I see something similar here. Football in the Philippines is progressing at a rate not in proportion with our expectations and demands. Is the growth of Philippine football too fast or not fast enough? Somebody tell me. Right now I feel that Philippine Football's rate of progress is as it should be. It's probably the best that can be done with the resources we have. But when you bring in public demand and expectations, things aren't happening fast enough. Considering football's explosion into national consciousness the way it did in 2010, it's a tough act to follow. Sure, 2011 brought lots of entertainment and controversies with a little bit thrown in during 2012. A league formed and grassroots programs have started to take shape. However, the fruits of these won't come for many years and the public wants their "whiz-bang!" now. We can see it happening already. Fewer people are interested in the National Team. The bandwagoners have left. Fewer sponsors are giving cash to football-related events and television broadcasts. Sadly, the miracle of Hanoi has to be followed up with more miracles. Much like Pacquiao continually moving up weight divisions. People want to see the Philippines continue moving up similarly in football. People want to see warriors of their own blood triumphing over foes they shouldn't have been able to defeat. Or if they lose, through a manner worthy of honor. To be honest, I don't think people want to see the Azkals up against their regional rivals anymore. They want to see them mix it up with the best in the world. We Filipinos seem to care about nothing less than being the absolute best at something. It may not be right. It may not make sense. But that's what it takes to inspire a nation. At least in my opinion. I do hope we make it to the next Asian Cup against the odds. Our future footballers (the *really* young ones) sure could use the inspiration.
|
|
|
Post by buddha on May 29, 2013 9:46:38 GMT 8
Caz, i don't think we need more "Hanoi miracles" to jump start public interest. Times and contexts have changed.
National team performances should be the icing on the cake. Like icing it's sweet and makes the cake look good but it's not the cake itself.
I think the "cake" should be our domestic league and player production. This is where our energies and resources should be focused. It should be pretty straightforward: professionalize the league and produce players good enough to play at even better leagues outside our own.
With a strong domestic league you won't need more "Hanoi miracles" to defibrillate Philippine football. We cannot keep depending on a national frenzy to sustain interest in football.
The "Hanoi miracle" can be recreated everyday in a domestic league as the fans experience the highs and lows of club football.
-------------
As a social scientist I think we need to see some numbers. I think we need to have actual statistics to be able to make an informed opinion on the progress of Philippine football.
Otherwise it's everybody's guess.
|
|
|
Post by benzgm on May 29, 2013 10:37:11 GMT 8
+1 on focusing our energies and resources to the domestic league.
Just take a look at basketball, kids of the 80s grew up wanting to be Jaworskis, Fernandezes, Atoy Cos, the 90s wanting to be Patrimonios, Abarrientoses, Lastimosas, not because of our performance in the International scene, but because of the PBA. We have to make the children want to grow up to be Younghusbands, Caligdongs or even the El Habibs or Hoshides.
The Hanoi miracle was already successful in jumpstarting a renaissance of sorts in football, as observed by Caz and teddyandtimmysdad, but we need to sustain this young players' interest, and what better way than to have players whom you would look up to, and try to emulate when playing. If we grew up watching kids trying to imitate Marlou Aquino's "ala-hoys", then maybe we could watch these current kids try to imitate Mr. Powersmile's headers, or OJ Porteria's nifty dribbling.
|
|
|
Post by Caz on Jun 5, 2013 18:37:59 GMT 8
Caz, i don't think we need more "Hanoi miracles" to jump start public interest. Times and contexts have changed. National team performances should be the icing on the cake. Like icing it's sweet and makes the cake look good but it's not the cake itself. I think the "cake" should be our domestic league and player production. This is where our energies and resources should be focused. It should be pretty straightforward: professionalize the league and produce players good enough to play at even better leagues outside our own. With a strong domestic league you won't need more "Hanoi miracles" to defibrillate Philippine football. We cannot keep depending on a national frenzy to sustain interest in football. The "Hanoi miracle" can be recreated everyday in a domestic league as the fans experience the highs and lows of club football. ------------- As a social scientist I think we need to see some numbers. I think we need to have actual statistics to be able to make an informed opinion on the progress of Philippine football. Otherwise it's everybody's guess. I 100% agree with you and the current pace of Philippine Football's development is the best that can be done at the moment. Certainly football fans like us will understand the missteps and losses along the way and keep on loving the sport and the local leagues as long as they are around. I also agree that fans like us don't need a "Hanoi miracle" all the time. But not everyone is a fan like us. And the development of football, as it progresses, needs more and more money. And to get that money the sport will need more than fans like us. There's no greater unifying force in football in our whole country than the Azkals right now. And their successes bring money in one way or another into the further development of the sport. So what I believe is that sure, we don't need Hanoi miracles (though they certainly help and are quite nice) but the public does need to see the team continuing to challenge themselves with each outing. Make each step forward tougher than the last. Like moving up boxing weight divisions. People want drama. People want dreams coming true. People want heroes. Inspiration. Something that'll make them feel that they too can be more than what the world thinks they are. They want the Philippines to be the absolute best at something. But right now, we're doing what we can. Whether or not it's quick enough only time can tell.
|
|
|
Post by buddha on Jun 6, 2013 7:32:36 GMT 8
You said, "There's no greater unifying force in football in our whole country than the Azkals right now. And their successes bring money in one way or another into the further development of the sport."
I think you're spot on, mate.
I just feel, you know, that the meager resources available should be plowed into the development of a professional league and that the national team and the grassroots program should be built around the growth & development of a professional league. This is in contrast to what seems to be the standard linear thinking which is to prioritize the grassroots programs and the national team first. This seems logical because, after all, shouldn't our national team be the end result of a grassroots program?
I see it differently. If I was to structure it as a pyramid I'd put the professional league at the base of the pyramid, coaches training & development at the next level, then the grassroots program follows, and finally at the apex would be the national team. In order for the sport to be attractive it has to be a lucrative career option here in the Philippines hence the professionalization of the league. Being a professional footballer becomes the driving force for football development, the motivation behind every child enrolled in a grassroots program. The professional league becomes the breeding ground for the national team and the carrier of our footballing culture.
I see the professionalization of football as the base on which everything else is built.
|
|
|
Post by hero99 on Jun 6, 2013 11:03:09 GMT 8
Correct , I also believe the professional league is the way to go. We already had grassroots programs for decades now but nothing flourished. I also think that professional clubs who have their own youth/grassroots programs are more effective than those grassroots programs organized by PFF. Clubs are more aggressive in recruiting/training when they see talent in a kid. On the other hand, I have doubts on the recruiting system of the scouts of PFF. They can see talents in the countryside, but in the end, the ones chosen are still the son of relatives and friends, or even godsons of persons who have the "right connections."
Have you seen the composition of Philippines' U-14 and U-11? I have seen them in Facebook and all of them are kayumangis. This is why I was not surprised when the Admin of that Azkals page said that they just lost their games to other Asian countries by a wide margin.
|
|
|
Post by strikerbon on Jun 6, 2013 12:03:48 GMT 8
that's the problem here. when you have a backer or a money to show, you will be the first in line. that is why those who are not financially capable, or players who doesn't have the right money to go and travel just to join for a tryout have given up the fight. they think they don't have the shot for the slot in the squad. i heard that in the recently concluded PFF Suzuki cup U-23 game, there was no member from the coaching staff of our youth team came to scout the game. so it's very clear that they're not doing their duties unlike the coaching staff of the other Countries who will travel from different places just to scout a potential players
|
|
|
Post by Wiking on Jun 6, 2013 12:26:44 GMT 8
I just want to share something refreshing for a change. I am in a 'typical' province for work at this time and am happy to report(here anyway), that I see more kids playing street football that I'd expect. I wish I had a camera then but a day ago this kid about 7 or 8 years old came zooming past me dribbling his make believe football(I thought it looked like a volleyball) to end up with his friends in a lot beside the national highway. I came back about an hour later and there was a full blown game with audiences none older than I'd say 12 and a home made shirt with the name "YOUNGHASBAND" written with a marker! A few days before that in the barangay there was a tricycle driver about 45-50yo with an Azkal shirt I was curious if he really was an Azkal fan or just happen to wear that shirt so I asked him when the Hong Kong match was being played. He said the 4th and that it was good it was in the evening because he'd be home by then(in Tagalog)!
We may not have a nationwide and coherent "grassroots" program, but it's nice to know somehow some way soccer is slowly but surely seeping back in to the national consciousness.
|
|
|
Post by Caz on Jun 7, 2013 1:20:00 GMT 8
If I was to structure it as a pyramid I'd put the professional league at the base of the pyramid, coaches training & development at the next level, then the grassroots program follows, and finally at the apex would be the national team. In order for the sport to be attractive it has to be a lucrative career option here in the Philippines hence the professionalization of the league. Being a professional footballer becomes the driving force for football development, the motivation behind every child enrolled in a grassroots program. The professional league becomes the breeding ground for the national team and the carrier of our footballing culture. I see the professionalization of football as the base on which everything else is built. I agree as well. When clubs are investing in a youth's training they have a lot more at stake than a non-club grassroots program. I've noticed link-ups between some school varsity teams, soccer schools, and charity foundations with UFL clubs' youth teams. It's good to have that kind of path for kids to go through as opposed to being left to fend for themselves at a certain age. Not to put down any of the PFF's grassroots programs. They do a whole lot of good too! I just want to share something refreshing for a change. I am in a 'typical' province for work at this time and am happy to report(here anyway), that I see more kids playing street football that I'd expect. I wish I had a camera then but a day ago this kid about 7 or 8 years old came zooming past me dribbling his make believe football(I thought it looked like a volleyball) to end up with his friends in a lot beside the national highway. I came back about an hour later and there was a full blown game with audiences none older than I'd say 12 and a home made shirt with the name "YOUNGHASBAND" written with a marker! A few days before that in the barangay there was a tricycle driver about 45-50yo with an Azkal shirt I was curious if he really was an Azkal fan or just happen to wear that shirt so I asked him when the Hong Kong match was being played. He said the 4th and that it was good it was in the evening because he'd be home by then(in Tagalog)! We may not have a nationwide and coherent "grassroots" program, but it's nice to know somehow some way soccer is slowly but surely seeping back in to the national consciousness. I've noticed that as well especially in the provinces. The Younghusbands do have that effect on kids. It's a great thing and they recognize the responsibility of being "heroes". Their work in promoting the sport has been fantastic. They hardly ever catch a break!
|
|
|
Post by narko on Jun 7, 2013 16:26:45 GMT 8
If I was to structure it as a pyramid I'd put the professional league at the base of the pyramid, coaches training & development at the next level, then the grassroots program follows, and finally at the apex would be the national team. In order for the sport to be attractive it has to be a lucrative career option here in the Philippines hence the professionalization of the league. Being a professional footballer becomes the driving force for football development, the motivation behind every child enrolled in a grassroots program. The professional league becomes the breeding ground for the national team and the carrier of our footballing culture. I see the professionalization of football as the base on which everything else is built. I agree as well. When clubs are investing in a youth's training they have a lot more at stake than a non-club grassroots program. I've noticed link-ups between some school varsity teams, soccer schools, and charity foundations with UFL clubs' youth teams. It's good to have that kind of path for kids to go through as opposed to being left to fend for themselves at a certain age. Not to put down any of the PFF's grassroots programs. They do a whole lot of good too! I agree with buddha and caz on this, the professionalization of football is the base. The added advantage of having clubs invest in youth academies is that it also creates a market for players. Rationalize the whole system and an infrastructure can be established that would benefit everyone. Of course, money has to be channeled into it but that is what a professional league is all about as well. You put this system into place the league could start establishing a system for player purchase, loan and trade at youth levels. What's more, when the time comes that foreign clubs start looking at our homegrown youth talents to recruit, the club or football academy that developed that talent can be financially compensated. Not only the club academies will benefit, even football academies or clubs such as Makati Football Club and others not connected with the league will benefit. They can act as feeders to the clubs if they get to produce quality players. That's what the festivals and open invitational tournaments are for. The Renato Cesarini FC in Rosario, Argentina operates in that manner. They only train kids between 10-17 years old. They compete in the lower youth tiers but rarely have champion teams because most of their good players get recruited right away by the youth academies of clubs such as Boca Juniors, River Plate, Newell's Old Boys, etc. That's how they make money and sustain themselves. They get compensated for the youth players that are recruited. They have a written agreement that stipulates that Cesarini FC gets a percentage when their youth player signs a pro contract. They even have a clause that if that player later on signs for a European club, they get a small percentage as well. Renato Cesarini FC philosophy is that it doesn't care about winning trophies or accolades in competitions, they gauge their success by the number of their students who are recruited by professional clubs. For them, giving the youths in their care a future in football is more important than victories in the playing field. They told us only 20 in a 100 end up as pros, the rest they help to get into other related fields such as coaching, sports medicine, physical therapy, sports science, etc. Their guiding principle is youth development, not glory on the football pitch. Consequently, the training staff of the club are predominatly "alumni." Many of their players (Mascherano is one of them) who have gone on to be very successful and rich send donations from time to time to help the club continue its operations as a gesture of gratitude. In fact, many Latin American professional clubs sustain themselves financially in that manner, by developing talent that will be signed by foreign clubs whether its Spain, Russia, Serbia, Norway, etc. Even 2nd or 3rd tier professional clubs in Europe can offer good money for talent. If we want to develop homegrown talent, let's set up an environment where these talents can prosper.
|
|