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Post by cjeagle on Jul 19, 2017 18:43:45 GMT 8
The Philippines might have a huge population of kids but most of them at this time do not play or were exposed to football. It is the responsibility of the PFF to change that demographic, but it will take time, since we are starting at such a low base. This is especially true when it comes to experienced developmental coaching. There are just not enough knowledgeable coaches out there.
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Post by xyz1000 on Jul 20, 2017 7:15:37 GMT 8
Excuse me, before you accuse me of not knowing what I am talking about. I spent 20 years working with Surf FC Academy in San Diego, CA. the sponsor of the famous Surf Cup San Diego. I'm 76 and have watched soccer for more than 52 years, 20 yrs in Spain. First I said: "U15 is a good indicator of how well the PFF is coaching our kids. Kids become serious with soccer at age U12-U13. " I DID NOT say that you pick a kid off the street at age U12-U13. In our academy, a lot of the young kids starts at 5-6-7 yrs. When I said serious about soccer, I mean the kids and parents wants soccer to be a career. About 40% of kids joining the academy is because of the their parents is forcing them to do so. Also, the more successful soccer player has a father, uncle, grand father who also plays soccer and have been exposed to soccer games since they were 4 yrs. old. This is the advantage of countries like UK, Spain, Portugal, Germany, and Italy. This is when I sometimes agree that the DNA of such kids have been modified to carry that soccer skills because of decades of soccer history through association. At Surf FC we were fortunate to have a trainer from Sporting do Lisboa (famous for training Cristiano Ronaldo, Figo, Nani and Moutinho) to spent time with us understanding the psychology of "who will turn out to be a super star soccer player" from kids starting at U5-U12. The answer is that you will never know, until the kids turns U12, U10 for kids from Africa, because of their physical stature. So what else is wrong with my post. How old are you, xyz1000. You did say that At U12 and U13 these are all just kids, equal in skills and potentials, and my contention is that they are not. My contention is that at U12 and U13, those other countries would beat the Philippines U12 and U13 because they are not equal in skills and potentials. The U12 and U13 from the other countries will have had more experience already. And by the time they're in the U15 group, there will still be no parity. The U15 may be a good indicator of coaching by the PFF, but the bigger factor is that there aren't enough kids to choose from. The PFF could have the best coaches in the world, but if the players who make up the pool, who have been playing since age 6, are only as many as the number of honest politicians in the Philippines, then there's no chance to beat the neighboring countries. You can't make the blanket statement that the PFF has no clue on how to teach soccer based on the U15 performance until you can prove that there's a large pool to choose from. That's another one of your mistakes -- the assumption that there's a large pool of youth to choose from. To choose from, yes. To choose from a pool who have been playing football, no. The pool for the U15 is small. Seven years ago, 2010, when there was the first breakthrough of the national team, very few kids were playing football. The kids in the U15 were about 8 years old then. Even you say that there are kids in your academy who start playing around age 5, 6 or 7. In the Philippines, most kids who are now 15 knew very little about football when they were 5, 6 or 7. Finally, being 76 doesn't entitle you to insightful arguments. Just goes to show that even age and experience can lead to knee-jerk assessments like concluding that the PFF doesn't have a clue on how to teach football.
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Post by raptours on Jul 20, 2017 8:32:35 GMT 8
In my small home town, there are at least 10,000 kids aging 8 to 15 and none of them plays football nor even kicked a football once in their life. If you look at it, you can easily say that you can just teach these kids to play the sport but the question would be, are these kids willing to even try to play football? May be 3% of them yes. But the remaining 97% would say they would prefer to play basketball. Why? Because admit it, basketball is so popular in our country that it became part of our culture, it became part of growing up. And football is not. And at least the PFF is taking action to really promote the sport in the grassroots but it will take time. You cannot change a culture over night. Maybe one thing the PFF can do to promote football better is to tie up with the government/ SK fed, organize football clinic and mini tournament for them to gradually generate interest. But again, it's easier said than done especially with the limited pitches available.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2017 23:06:43 GMT 8
As a soccer evangelist, I refuse to give up and blame it to basketball. We could rationalized that there are not enough synthetic pitches around, and it is expensive to buy a pair of Adidas Ace-17.1 Primeknit FG cleats.
I remember this post a long time ago. Soccer is easier for 3nd. world countries than basketball.
I do not think it is difficult and impossible to establish 1 goal, be focused and JUST DO IT. The GOAL: Beat the Vietnamese in 2019 AFF U15 championship. Start with the U13 today, select the best 30 men roster, no cronyism, no families paying their way and political pressures. And of course GET A REAL SOCCER COACH, who looks at soccer coaching as a PASSION and NOT A JOB.
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Post by cjeagle on Jul 21, 2017 2:56:00 GMT 8
As a soccer evangelist, I refuse to give up and blame it to basketball. We could rationalized that there are not enough synthetic pitches around, and it is expensive to buy a pair of Adidas Ace-17.1 Primeknit FG cleats. I remember this post a long time ago. Soccer is easier for 3nd. world countries than basketball. I do not think it is difficult and impossible to establish 1 goal, be focused and JUST DO IT. The GOAL: Beat the Vietnamese in 2019 AFF U15 championship. Start with the U13 today, select the best 30 men roster, no cronyism, no families paying their way and political pressures. And of course GET A REAL SOCCER COACH, who looks at soccer coaching as a PASSION and NOT A JOB. No you are right. The PFF have assembled better U 15 teams in the past under a different coach, that they have even sent to England(with help) and done well. I don't really like their choice of coach for the U15 group, in Chieffy Caligdong. His positional play in the past as a player left a lot to be desired, qualities that you normally don't look for in a coach. They have also been known to have coaches in the past that exhibited favoritism, so the best players don't get chosen. It is also possible that the current coach doesn't know how to pick the right players. Regardless, the PFF's player selection and development strategy has been somewhat haphazard and selective. They just set one time tryouts per region, instead of establishing a scouting network(ideally staffed by qualified volunteers to cut costs like they have in Germany and other countries) to follow players within their respective leagues long term, before calling them up to camp for tryouts. When they do establish a team, they don't seem to have a long term development strategy to help the player's development. Part of that is the lack of competitive tournaments to help them develop as well as qualified coaches to guide them in their development. That is where the PFF needs to step in to provide those elements long term, something along the lines of the defunct Coke for goal nationwide tournaments would be a good start for instance. All this will take time and would need sponsors.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 3:31:09 GMT 8
FYI: In the AFF 2017 U15 Youth Championship, out of a field of 12 countries, the Philippines managed the 10th. position, i.e. only 2 other countries were under.
Continuing on this subject: I am almost positive that U13 today (U15 during the 2019 U15 Championship) levels the playing field. I do not think that there are 3-5 Vietnamese U13 players today, playing like the next Messi. This bet is a race on what the PFF could accomplish in two yrs. And I do not believe the Pinoys will take "second fiddle" against the Vietnamese, or Thailanders for that matter.
The biggest problem is cronyism, rich influential families using money to get what they wanted, and corruption within the pool selections and tryouts. I, also believe that more than 50% of the current players (with their parents) are NOT into SOCCER with passion, but just the lure of FREE TRAVEL. i.e. "JOIN THE PFF mens national youth team TO SEE THE WORLD!,... soccer, who cares, we are going to lose anyway".
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Post by cebujames on Jul 21, 2017 8:21:56 GMT 8
FYI: In the AFF 2017 U15 Youth Championship, out of a field of 12 countries, the Philippines managed the 10th. position, i.e. only 2 other countries were under. Continuing on this subject: I am almost positive that U13 today (U15 during the 2019 U15 Championship) levels the playing field. I do not think that there are 3-5 Vietnamese U13 players today, playing like the next Messi. This bet is a race on what the PFF could accomplish in two yrs. And I do not believe the Pinoys will take "second fiddle" against the Vietnamese, or Thailanders for that matter. The biggest problem is cronyism, rich influential families using money to get what they wanted, and corruption within the pool selections and tryouts. I, also believe that more than 50% of the current players (with their parents) are NOT into SOCCER with passion, but just the lure of FREE TRAVEL. i.e. "JOIN THE PFF mens national youth team TO SEE THE WORLD!,... soccer, who cares, we are going to lose anyway". The biggest problem is cronyism, rich influential families using money to get what they wanted, and corruption within the pool selections and tryouts. I, also believe that more than 50% of the current players (with their parents) are NOT into SOCCER with passion, but just the lure of FREE TRAVEL. i.e. "JOIN THE PFF mens national youth team TO SEE THE WORLD!,... soccer, who cares, we are going to lose anyway". This is definitely true. This needs to be changed right away. And it's not only with football. It's with other sports and with politics even before. So, it's just how most of the Filipino's would do that needs change.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 22:12:07 GMT 8
The title of this thread is "The Philippine Azkals’ future is being built on youth".
But something is wrong with this picture. In the AFF U15 Youth Championship, the PFF U15 was 10th. in a field of 12 countries with -11 GD, while in the AFC U23 2018 Qualifier, the PFF U23 is 0 PTS, -10 GD in two games. Next Sunday, they are up against Cambodia who just tied China, interesting to see what the final PTS and GD will be.
The question is "Are we kidding ourselves".
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Post by xyz1000 on Jul 22, 2017 22:41:31 GMT 8
Here’s the final standings in the U15 group the Philippines was in: Vietnam Malaysia Cambodia Brunei Philippines Timor Leste
Just to compare, here’s a list of the same countries, in order of least corrupt to most corrupt according to Transparency International: 41 Brunei 55 Malaysia 101 Philippines 101 Timor Leste 113 Vietnam 156 Cambodia
One may be tempted to think that the Philippines should be more corrupt in order to do well in the tournament. That’s not my point. My point is that there’s a weak correlation between country corruption and the U15 performance. Those that make blanket statements that the country is corrupt which means the PFF is corrupt, which means the U15 will never succeed, are plain wrong.
Now if any of you have specific arguments that the PFF is corrupt and that the corruption is hindering success, I’d like to hear about it. There was a time pre-2010 when the PFF was indeed corrupt and it was definitely hindering success. This is a different PFF from that time. More transparent. Genuinely interested in the promotion of the sport. If any of you think the PFF is corrupt, if there are specific situations that make you think so, I would absolutely like to hear about it.
Otherwise, get off your high horse and stop making the tired and old argument that football or the U15 will never succeed because the country is corrupt. There are many reasons why the U15 did not do well this time around. Country corruption is not a major contributor.
I believe that the U15, perhaps even this batch of U15, will eventually succeed when they reach U18 or U21. But that's for another post altogether.....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 1:23:39 GMT 8
Let's be clear on the final result of the AFF U15 Youth championship, since there were 2 groups of 6 countries, and the final overall table is as follows:
P W D L F A GD Pts VIETNAM 5 5 0 0 16 2 14 15 THAILAND 5 5 0 0 8 2 6 15 AUSTRALIA 5 4 0 1 24 6 18 12 MALAYSIA 5 4 0 1 11 3 8 12 MYANMAR 5 2 1 2 6 9 -3 7 CAMBODIA 5 2 0 3 8 8 0 6 LAOS 5 2 0 3 7 8 -1 6 BRUNEI DS 5 1 2 2 3 5 -2 5 INDONESIA 5 1 1 3 9 13 -4 4 PHILIPPINES 5 1 1 3 2 13 -11 4 SINGAPORE 5 0 0 5 0 16 -16 0 TIMOR LESTE 5 0 1 4 0 9 -9 1
Forget about whether the PFF is corrupt or NOT, let's look at the line of responsibilities: 1. The PFF selects and hires the coach and coaching staff. We could debate how the coach and coaching staff was selected by the PFF. 2. The coach and coaching staff selects the players for the pool, for the tournaments and the starting 11.
We have to assume that the pool and players selection was done using the coaches' game plan and a well designed strategic TEAM IDENTITY. The team identity is selected to increase the team's competitive edge, i.e. TO WIN or NOT giving away GOALS.
Now, based on the outcome of the U15 tournament, we could agree that the coach and coaching staff drastically FAILED and the pool of players they have selected also did NOT deliver. We could then ADD-ON the performance of the U23 MNT in the AFC 2018 U23 Qualifiers, were the PFF U23 is 0 PTS and -10 GD in two games.
Call it CORRUPT or NOT CORRUPT, the bottomline is that THE JOB IS NOT BEING DONE CORRECTLY. ... And the PFF is responsible and OWNS IT. Of course, you could blame it to BASKETBALL, like everybody else.
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Post by nicag88 on Jul 23, 2017 2:46:07 GMT 8
Let's be clear on the final result of the AFF U15 Youth championship, since there were 2 groups of 6 countries, and the final overall table is as follows: P W D L F A GD Pts VIETNAM 5 5 0 0 16 2 14 15 THAILAND 5 5 0 0 8 2 6 15 AUSTRALIA 5 4 0 1 24 6 18 12 MALAYSIA 5 4 0 1 11 3 8 12 MYANMAR 5 2 1 2 6 9 -3 7 CAMBODIA 5 2 0 3 8 8 0 6 LAOS 5 2 0 3 7 8 -1 6 BRUNEI DS 5 1 2 2 3 5 -2 5 INDONESIA 5 1 1 3 9 13 -4 4 PHILIPPINES 5 1 1 3 2 13 -11 4 SINGAPORE 5 0 0 5 0 16 -16 0 TIMOR LESTE 5 0 1 4 0 9 -9 1
Forget about whether the PFF is corrupt or NOT, let's look at the line of responsibilities: 1. The PFF selects and hires the coach and coaching staff. We could debate how the coach and coaching staff was selected by the PFF. 2. The coach and coaching staff selects the players for the pool, for the tournaments and the starting 11. We have to assume that the pool and players selection was done using the coaches' game plan and a well designed strategic TEAM IDENTITY. The team identity is selected to increase the team's competitive edge, i.e. TO WIN or NOT giving away GOALS. Now, based on the outcome of the U15 tournament, we could agree that the coach and coaching staff drastically FAILED and the pool of players they have selected also did NOT deliver. We could then ADD-ON the performance of the U23 MNT in the AFC 2018 U23 Qualifiers, were the PFF U23 is 0 PTS and -10 GD in two games. Call it CORRUPT or NOT CORRUPT, the bottomline is that THE JOB IS NOT BEING DONE CORRECTLY. ... And the PFF is responsible and OWNS IT. Of course, you could blame it to BASKETBALL, like everybody else. Of course its basketball what do else do you think it is. 5 ft 4 aspiring to be professionals haha. Just imagine the pool of players a coach could choose from if people were crazy about football the same as they do with basketball or even equal interest
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 21:50:42 GMT 8
Final Results for the AFC U23 2018 Championship Qualifiers Group J 19 July 2017 15:30 Japan 8 v Philippines 0 21 July 2017 15:30 Philippines 0 v China PR 2 23 July 2017 18:30 Cambodia 1 v Philippines 0 NO COMMENT ---- No need to beat a dead horse. But for those who believe that the glass is half full, The Philippines U23 team got better within the 3 games. Next stop for the U23 team is The 2017 Kuala Lumpur SEA Games is on August 14 to 29.
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Post by iniestafan on Jul 24, 2017 12:49:28 GMT 8
As what coach TD said, you wont get and know the best players as long as you have a very small pool of players. For me Im still optimistic with this, although compare 10-15 years ago, the game is played on a higher pace now plus more and more players are being trained scientifically by our neighbors. What PFF is doing now with the senior mens team is stopping the gap while they are trying to sustain football interest thru PFL and the grassroots program.
Right now, after the Azkals and younghusband, there are no signifcant football program in the mainstream media by the PFF. Only hardcore football fans are aware of the U15 and U23. Im still Positive that although the game is develop slower compare to china, Thailand and Japan, at least we are moving. There are progress. There'll always be challenges along the wAy, but this are the birth pains that we should accept. As much as we want them to be accountable for the footballing scene in the country, you just cant blame the people who reintroduce Pinoy football to the local and international fans. All we have to do is keep talking about football and keep the fire burning for us fans while waiting for progress.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 21:42:46 GMT 8
Coaches will always complain on a small pool of players they can choose from. Let's consider Dooley's comment. There are about 24.5M number of people who play soccer at some level in the U.S. with 3.1M Youth players officially registered with U.S.Soccer programs in 2014. With these numbers, the USMNT and US Youth Teams can barely compete with most countries in Europe whose total population is much much lower than the numbers mentioned. The USA is ranked 35, way below countries like Portugal, Costa Rica, Belgium, Netherlands and Iceland.
Talking about Iceland, I can assume that there are not a lot of synthetic or natural grass pitches in Iceland, and soccer practices are limited by the weather and the winter days. This greatly applies to young kids who cannot play in the streets like most tropical countries. The total population of Iceland is 331,000 (2015). Iceland is ranked 19.
The key is good focused coaching and the selection of good potential players. The PFF coaches and coaching staff IS NOT exhibiting such qualities. They should be replaced, starting with Maro, Aberasturi and the rest of the coaching staff.
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Post by boyfootball655 on Jul 27, 2017 12:47:45 GMT 8
Coaches will always complain on a small pool of players they can choose from. Let's consider Dooley's comment. There are about 24.5M number of people who play soccer at some level in the U.S. with 3.1M Youth players officially registered with U.S.Soccer programs in 2014. With these numbers, the USMNT and US Youth Teams can barely compete with most countries in Europe whose total population is much much lower than the numbers mentioned. The USA is ranked 35, way below countries like Portugal, Costa Rica, Belgium, Netherlands and Iceland. Talking about Iceland, I can assume that there are not a lot of synthetic or natural grass pitches in Iceland, and soccer practices are limited by the weather and the winter days. This greatly applies to young kids who cannot play in the streets like most tropical countries. The total population of Iceland is 331,000 (2015). Iceland is ranked 19. The key is good focused coaching and the selection of good potential players. The PFF coaches and coaching staff IS NOT exhibiting such qualities. They should be replaced, starting with Maro, Aberasturi and the rest of the coaching staff. Iceland actually has a lot of great football-centric facilities and their programs are very well-planned and organized. Give this a read www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/icelands-secret-success-just-changed-7004162.amp
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