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Post by usbdata on Jun 15, 2011 11:12:58 GMT 8
those who say macca produced results should not only look about his record with the azkals but also compare it to his record now in vietnam. just because he is successful in phl doesn't mean you have to ignore his record in vietnam. you said our team was playing like a team trying to stave off relegation, hindi rin ba ganun din yang team ni macca ngayon sa vietnam? our team under macca was able to save itself from being relegated, that local team from vietnam now under macca will most probably be relegated. so if he really is that good as some say, then why can't he save long an from being relegated? the reason is, he can't take all the credit for himself for the azkals success. for he himself said this, "I think it is easier in the Philippines because they have good players who would have been coached properly. Here it is difficult in that we have some good players but also others who have not been coached properly."
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Post by xyz1000 on Jun 15, 2011 21:44:45 GMT 8
those who say macca produced results should not only look about his record with the azkals but also compare it to his record now in vietnam. just because he is successful in phl doesn't mean you have to ignore his record in vietnam. you said our team was playing like a team trying to stave off relegation, hindi rin ba ganun din yang team ni macca ngayon sa vietnam? our team under macca was able to save itself from being relegated, that local team from vietnam now under macca will most probably be relegated. so if he really is that good as some say, then why can't he save long an from being relegated? the reason is, he can't take all the credit for himself for the azkals success. for he himself said this, "I think it is easier in the Philippines because they have good players who would have been coached properly. Here it is difficult in that we have some good players but also others who have not been coached properly." Why is his stint in Vietnam relevant again? Are we talking about the legacy of Coach Mc in the whole to the world? Or are we talking about the record of Coach Mc while he was coach in the RP? Why can't people accept that some credit is due to Coach Mc for delivering fantastic results at the Suzuki Cup? Does he deserve all the credit? Absolutely not. Do the assistant coaches deserve credit? Of course they do. Do they deserve all the credit? Of course not. Palami? Of course he deserves some credit. Let's not forget the players, including De Jong. Can we forget De Jong's contribution in the Suzuki Cup because he is now clubless and supposedly with attitude problems? That's the same logic you're applying in your argument about Coach Mc. Fact is, Coach W cannot be given any credit for fantastic results because no fantastic results have been produced. And that's the bottom line. Old saying: Success has many fathers but Failure is an orphan.
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Post by usbdata on Jun 15, 2011 23:02:18 GMT 8
ay ang labo, i was clearly comparing both previous azkals and current vietnam team that macca is handling as both were/are facing relegation. he suceeded in saving azkals but will not probably be able to do so in that vietnam team. all i'm saying is if ganun siya kagaling, then dapat ligtas na sa relegation yang vietnam team na yan pero hindi. cos some people here are saying parang siya pa ang saviour ng phl football.
he was able to do so because the players we had here are better compared to the players in that vietnam team now. all i'm saying is for those who treat macca as if he were the messiah of phl football is they should realize that MACCA himself said this, "I think it is easier in the Philippines because they have good players who would have been coached properly. Here it is difficult in that we have some good players but also others who have not been coached properly." and by that he meant, he was able to do what he was able to do for the azkals than for that vietnam team because we had better players. In short, it wasn't solely due to him being GODLY as a coach.
pag di niyo pa rin naintindihan ang sinasabi ng inyong iniidolong diyos na si macca, hala kayo magtalo ni macca. ;D
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Post by xyz1000 on Jun 16, 2011 1:57:10 GMT 8
I don't think there's anyone in these boards, even the most fanatic Macca supporter, who's written that he is godly, messianic, or ganun kagaling.
What we're discussing here is the record of Coach Mc vs. Coach W. Some here are loathe to give Coach Mc any credit, which I don't understand.
Discussing how "galing" Coach Mc is is one topic I'm completely uninterested in. Comparing his results, coaching, and influence to Coach W's, however, is a completely different matter.
Success has many fathers but Failure is an orphan
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Post by Usapang Football on Jun 16, 2011 14:03:41 GMT 8
Except McMenemy had no record to begin with. As stated by samhain13, the topic is definitely:
Bracamonte, Cabalida, Pinero v.s. Coach Weiss
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Post by jvictor on Jun 16, 2011 14:23:40 GMT 8
If we still have McMenemy we wouldn't be playing Bundesliga teams.
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Post by lakza on Jun 16, 2011 15:15:29 GMT 8
XYZ100, ok na sige na. We're giving him credit na for the Vietnam wins.
Ok na? Makakatulog ka na ba ng mahimbing?
Point is, there's no point discussing this at all. If you're saying that Coach W performance has not produced anything fantastic, then you must be asleep the past several months. We've just qualified in the 2012 Challenge Cup. If your definition of fantastic is just about the Suzuki Cup wins, then take off your rose-tinted glasses and accept the real story behind it -- he can get credit for some of it but not all of it. But then again, it won't really help if you're a Macca fanboy because whatever the results in the next coming months, you'd still wish Macca as at the helm.
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Post by xyz1000 on Jun 16, 2011 21:24:23 GMT 8
If we still have McMenemy we wouldn't be playing Bundesliga teams. Are we playing Bundesliga teams? That's news to me. But you're getting to the point as to why it's important to continue our good relations with the DFB. There are 10 million (or is it 20 million?) reasons for it. Unfortunately these are also the same reasons why it's difficult to get rid of Coach W or any other German coach who is not producing the desired results. Golden handcuffs. If the choice is Coach Mc or Coach W but with the golden handcuffs, I'd drop Coach Mc so fast like excess baggage in a lifeboat. If the (English) FA came up with bigger and gem-studded golden handcuffs, then that's another matter. But I digress...
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Post by xyz1000 on Jun 16, 2011 22:16:49 GMT 8
XYZ100, ok na sige na. We're giving him credit na for the Vietnam wins. Ok na? Makakatulog ka na ba ng mahimbing? Point is, there's no point discussing this at all. If you're saying that Coach W performance has not produced anything fantastic, then you must be asleep the past several months. We've just qualified in the 2012 Challenge Cup. If your definition of fantastic is just about the Suzuki Cup wins, then take off your rose-tinted glasses and accept the real story behind it -- he can get credit for some of it but not all of it. But then again, it won't really help if you're a Macca fanboy because whatever the results in the next coming months, you'd still wish Macca as at the helm. The Challege Cup qualifying results were good, not great, certainly not fantastic. If the performance had to be evaluated and categorized into one of these: a) did not meet expectations b) met expectations c) exceeded expectations Then the performance would be (b). How they achieved the results was not impressive, but still they met expectations. Macca fanboy? Oh, please. Give him credit where credit is due. And before you think you know what I wish for, think again. What I wish for is the progress of the Azkals. And I'm not impressed with what I see at the moment. As for Coach W, I'm waiting to be impressed. I want to be impressed. I'll be a convert when he starts exceeding expectations.
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Post by fadzki on Jun 16, 2011 23:32:40 GMT 8
XYZ100, ok na sige na. We're giving him credit na for the Vietnam wins. Ok na? Makakatulog ka na ba ng mahimbing? Point is, there's no point discussing this at all. If you're saying that Coach W performance has not produced anything fantastic, then you must be asleep the past several months. We've just qualified in the 2012 Challenge Cup. If your definition of fantastic is just about the Suzuki Cup wins, then take off your rose-tinted glasses and accept the real story behind it -- he can get credit for some of it but not all of it. But then again, it won't really help if you're a Macca fanboy because whatever the results in the next coming months, you'd still wish Macca as at the helm. The Challege Cup qualifying results were good, not great, certainly not fantastic. If the performance had to be evaluated and categorized into one of these: a) did not meet expectations b) met expectations c) exceeded expectations Then the performance would be (b). How they achieved the results was not impressive, but still they met expectations. Macca fanboy? Oh, please. Give him credit where credit is due. And before you think you know what I wish for, think again. What I wish for is the progress of the Azkals. And I'm not impressed with what I see at the moment. As for Coach W, I'm waiting to be impressed. I want to be impressed. I'll be a convert when he starts exceeding expectations. Before I had troubles on why did PFF sack Macca but now with the way thing are going and the way the German Football Federation is helping our Football in the PHL... onething xyz by being impressed you meant?
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Post by xyz1000 on Jun 17, 2011 0:26:55 GMT 8
fadzkiI'll be happy if he exceeds expectations and impressed if he gets fantastic results. Meeting expectations: Advancing against Sri Lanka in home-and-away series Exceeding expectations: Beating Sri Lanka convincingly in both games AND a tie with Kuwait in at least one game; playing them competitively Fantastic results: Advancing past Kuwait AND playing competitively in the next round
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Post by curtlanceunited on Jun 17, 2011 10:24:50 GMT 8
To be honest, I really don't like how the Azkals played with Macca as coach. Seriously, the games against Singapore, Vietnam, Myanmar and Indonesia, we were clearly bombarded with goal attempts from the opposing side because under Macca our midfield was really deep making it like an 8-man defence which is bad because we didn't have any concrete offensive play whatsoever under him. Our midfield passing was really bad, with no proper link up from defense to midfield to attack. The goals that we scored against Vietnam came from breakaways when the Vietnam defense kind of slept because we can't even hardly pass our own half. Remember that the goal scored by Phil Younghusband was from his Usain Bolt effort to run from our half unto Vietnam's half to make the effort of scoring a goal. Also remember that Under Weiss, we managed to score 2 goals against a Mongolian Team that literally parked the Bus. The 2nd leg against Mongolia was understandable because of unfortunate circumstances that happened along the way (e.g. sub-zero conditions, the Japan tragedy experienced by the Azkals before going to Mongolia and the unfortunate things that happened to Ray Jonsson) and also the goals that we conceded are from set pieces, both due to the defensive negligence of Sabio. But we have to give credit also that we dominated Myanmar in the 2nd half but again was unfortunate to concede a goal from set piece. We managed to have a draw against a more Physically dominant Palestinian team and dominated Bangladesh from start to finish under Coach W. Nuff said! The Azkals play better football under Weiss..
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Post by jvictor on Jun 17, 2011 13:04:57 GMT 8
To be honest, I really don't like how the Azkals played with Macca as coach. Seriously, the games against Singapore, Vietnam, Myanmar and Indonesia, we were clearly bombarded with goal attempts from the opposing side because under Macca our midfield was really deep making it like an 8-man defence which is bad because we didn't have any concrete offensive play whatsoever under him. Our midfield passing was really bad, with no proper link up from defense to midfield to attack. The goals that we scored against Vietnam came from breakaways when the Vietnam defense kind of slept because we can't even hardly pass our own half. Remember that the goal scored by Phil Younghusband was from his Usain Bolt effort to run from our half unto Vietnam's half to make the effort of scoring a goal. Also remember that Under Weiss, we managed to score 2 goals against a Mongolian Team that literally parked the Bus. The 2nd leg against Mongolia was understandable because of unfortunate circumstances that happened along the way (e.g. sub-zero conditions, the Japan tragedy experienced by the Azkals before going to Mongolia and the unfortunate things that happened to Ray Jonsson) and also the goals that we conceded are from set pieces, both due to the defensive negligence of Sabio. But we have to give credit also that we dominated Myanmar in the 2nd half but again was unfortunate to concede a goal from set piece. We managed to have a draw against a more Physically dominant Palestinian team and dominated Bangladesh from start to finish under Coach W. Nuff said! The Azkals play better football under Weiss.. Nd we got better games!
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Post by lakza on Jun 17, 2011 14:55:49 GMT 8
fadzkiI'll be happy if he exceeds expectations and impressed if he gets fantastic results. Meeting expectations: Advancing against Sri Lanka in home-and-away series Exceeding expectations: Beating Sri Lanka convincingly in both games AND a tie with Kuwait in at least one game; playing them competitively Fantastic results: Advancing past Kuwait AND playing competitively in the next round Such a demanding Macca fanboy you are. To think that the Challenge Cup results only 'meets expectations' is pure lack of knowledge of how the Azkals play the game and its history. Can you tell me the last time the Philippines last made it to the Challenge Cup Final stages? Sobrang madaling tanong na yan ah. The thing with looking at the results is that you tend to think that it always reflect how the game is played. I'm sure you were one of those who were whining when we lost to Mongolia in Ulaabator without even putting into consideration that we actually qualified into the group stages given the conditions we were up against. The facts are clear, WE ARE PLAYING BETTER POSITIVE FOOTBALL now compared to how we played in the Suzuki Cup. However, if you try to look at just the results and scorelines, then there's nothing we can do about your twisted perception of the game. Stop looking at the rankings because it doesn't really mean anything when on the pitch. Just because the Emerging nations are ranked lower against our ASEAN counterparts, it doesn't mean that they are easy teams to deal with. But then again, you're a macca fanboy so you'll choose not to look at facts.
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Post by curtlanceunited on Jun 17, 2011 15:05:42 GMT 8
fadzki Just because the Emerging nations are ranked lower against our ASEAN counterparts, it doesn't mean that they are easy teams to deal with. Just like the Palestinians.
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