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Post by kuo24 on Jun 7, 2012 13:29:51 GMT 8
Isn't right back our shallowest position? That's the side that's always being exploited. After Carli, who do we have left?
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Post by feindouno on Jun 7, 2012 13:53:25 GMT 8
Uh, Schrock? LOL.
But, seriously, we have been vulnerable from counter-attacks from failed corners since around 2004 (because prior to that we were vulnerable to virtually anything).
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Post by Wiking on Jun 7, 2012 14:59:08 GMT 8
Isn't right back our shallowest position? That's the side that's always being exploited. After Carli, who do we have left? RB is shallow because the coach has made it so. We have Anton del Rosario and Jerry Barbaso who are proven and have played for the senior team yet lately have not been reintegrated back with the seniors. Lucena isn't available all the time. Leigh Gunn plays here and plays it well but Weiss isn't interested. CB: Aly Borromeo is injured and isn't available yet. Jacques vB(played only for the youth team). Margarse and Gener(seriously?). Lucena is a CM and RB not really a CB AND is not available most of the time. Oliver Potchke hasn't been called up lately. So after Sabio and Gier who else would you put there or more importantly has experience playing with high level international games? Unless Weiss starts paying attention here, the future isn't looking too bright. Heck, at least start including a reserve CB in our roster especially in upcoming tourneys. As it is, we go to tourneys with a maximum of 5 defenders!! Gier is serviceable but he is not getting any faster with age...
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Post by stellarboy on Jun 7, 2012 15:10:14 GMT 8
The LB position is also shallow. We can't have Ray Jonsson and Dennis Cagara all the time. In addition, like Gier, Jonsson is not getting any faster with age. Neckson Leonora was impressive, but wasn't integrated well for the seniors later on.
I'm afraid this could spell disaster later on if Coach Weiss will not focus on this aspect. If the depth of the backline gets dried up, this will indeed make trouble for both Dan Palami and the other outfield players themselves.
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Post by narko on Jun 7, 2012 16:26:35 GMT 8
I agree with the concerns raised here regarding our defensive line and its lack of depth. Our defense is definitely looking shallow. Gier and Jonsson are getting old. They'll do fine if we're defending deep with little space behind the defense for the opponent to exploit on a rapid break. While Carli is a fairly good player, the recent friendlies have exposed his weakness to an opponent with pace. Again, Carli will do fine as RB if the opponent dictates that the team play deep defensively. A back-up who can deal with pacey opposing wingers is needed for matches where our team will be playing a higher defensive line and more offensive style of play. Same issues with LB. Cagara won't be available all the time. Juani will probably face the same problems as Carli, and I prefer Juani playing centrally, either as centerback or defensive mid where he was effective in the last AFC challenge Cup. Plus, Juani isn't that young either. In the middle, it will probably take time for Aly B. to get back to his previous form. This area of concern needs to be addressed as early as possible.
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Post by alvill44 on Jun 7, 2012 16:32:59 GMT 8
I agree with you guys about our lack of depth at CB and LB positions. As for RB, i think i can live with De Murga for now. He's still young anyways.
CB- I think Rob Gier's days are numbered as the no.1 CB when Aly fully recovers from his injury. I would love to see the Aly/Sabio tandem at CB . But even Aly isn't getting any younger. So right now the only future at CB is Sabio. We need to start looking and developing locally-based guys for the future. I heard a lot of good things about Jacques Van B, but i haven't seen him play and he's based abroad, so he wont always be available. There was also a time when David Basa's name was mentioned but I don't know how good he is.
LB- As of now Ray Jonsson or Dennis Cagara is a lock at this position but then again they're not getting any younger and they're based abroad. What if both of them are not available, who's next in line? Juani Guirado? He has a full-time job in Spain. Who's next? There's only one guy I can think of, his name is Neckson Leonora. But why aren't we developing the guy? Why didn't he get invited to the training camps in Bacolod? Who knows. I saw him play at the SEA games, the kid has potential.
This is definitely a major concern going forward. Our backline is getting older while our counterparts in the ASEAN have started capping their young guns in their senior team. Weiss should start giving the young guys on the squad a chance to play. What better way to do it against Guam.
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Post by mayfel on Jun 7, 2012 17:38:48 GMT 8
how about dorlas for lb position?? for the challenge cup and recent friendlies he was in the camp so it means coach weiss see a potential to this lad.. as for cb i think we also have fernandez of diliman, he is pretty young though, all he needs is EXPOSURE so as basa, barbosa and leonora. i hope in the long teng cup we can give them the exposure that they needed. also if plan pushed through, the chicago camp will include these guys and left margarse and gener here in the philippines. their time in NT is over and we should move on with these young guys. we have to accept that in any sports, you have your time and their time is over. thank you for both of those guys for representing the philippines even on our darkest day..
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Post by shanks608 on Jun 7, 2012 19:14:20 GMT 8
I agree with you guys regarding the issue of our defense. We don't have too much depth on our defenders. We must have at least one sub for each. So far, carli and sabio are doing great but Carli seems to have a problem with speedy wingers. We must develop our back four as early as now so that come Suzuki Cup these guys are already familiar with each other and by then they are already comfortable with offside traps or other defensive positions, but that's another story. Hopefully Aly would be match fit by that time. If Anton would clear things with the coach then that would be great. Possible defenders to look at would be Dorlas, Barbaso, (stallions defenders, I'm not really familiar), Leonora, Van Bossche,
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Post by faridoon on Jun 7, 2012 21:16:43 GMT 8
CB- Jeffrey Tumanan..
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Post by strikerbon on Jun 7, 2012 22:21:52 GMT 8
we really need young and big defenders, we have Van Bossche and Fernandez but we need to expose them in the international arena. how tall are they? how about Unabia? this guy was called-up before but didn't play. he stands 6'2, and looks pretty good for this position. oh for those who are aspiring to be a PBA player, you can consider playing football
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Post by veryfatchocobo on Jun 8, 2012 2:08:38 GMT 8
Isn't right back our shallowest position? That's the side that's always being exploited. After Carli, who do we have left? RB is shallow because the coach has made it so. We have Anton del Rosario and Jerry Barbaso who are proven and have played for the senior team yet lately have not been reintegrated back with the seniors. Lucena isn't available all the time. Leigh Gunn plays here and plays it well but Weiss isn't interested. IMO, Weiss is right to bench both of them. That position nowadays is required to play in the offense (see Maicon, Lahm, Dani Alves, etc.). Del Rosario cannot do that efficiently (more of a 3rd/4th CB when he plays there). Barbaso is a headless chicken (sorry <_<). He runs fast and is athletic, but he doesn't have the footballing brain to play at the international level. We have Schrock who's a natural RB though, but he's apparently too good for our team, and, as a result, he apparently needs to play at midfield. Regarding Caligdong. I think he's still good enough, but he's still off-pace because of his knee injury. It takes 6-12 months to go back onto the pitch, but it takes an additional 1 to 2 years to get back to playing normally. Look at Xavi. He tore his knee ligaments at the end of '05. During '06 to the end of the '07 season, he was good but still slowish imo. Then '07-'08 comes around, he becomes Barcelona's world beater (again). So yeah, it's a normal pattern of football to be "slow" after a knee injury.
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Post by Wiking on Jun 8, 2012 2:42:17 GMT 8
RB is shallow because the coach has made it so. We have Anton del Rosario and Jerry Barbaso who are proven and have played for the senior team yet lately have not been reintegrated back with the seniors. Lucena isn't available all the time. Leigh Gunn plays here and plays it well but Weiss isn't interested. IMO, Weiss is right not to play both of them at RB. That position nowadays is required to play in the offense (see Maicon, Lahm, Dani Alves, etc.). Del Rosario cannot do that efficiently (more of a 3rd/4th CB when he plays there). Barbaso is a headless chicken (sorry <_<). He runs fast and is athletic, but he doesn't have the footballing brain to play at the level. We have Schrock who's a natural RB though, but he's apparently too good for our team, and, as a result, he apparently needs to play at midfield. You may be right but what was being discussed is the back up position, whether using a veteran or grooming a player for the future. Not necessarily to replaced Carli(who I think is the best RB we have locally). The point is: the coach has not tried to integrate or develop anyone for the future in this position, among others. Just relying on who? Jerry Lucena or Shrock? It's the same situation for the CB position today, right now. If before the game against Guam, Sabio or Gier suddenly fell down the stairs of their hotel. Who does Weiss call? Margarse? Gener? Oliver Potchke? He has not integrated anyone(!) at CB. Even in the AFC CC he only brought 5 defenders? I agree about Barbaso, I actually laughed a little! But seriously, he has the skills as you've said, but lacks "footballing brain" like you said too but isn't it all the more reason to teach him while he's young? And one cannot teach speed, which the kid definitely has. Against Guam, I hope we have some new faces especially on defense.
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Post by Caz on Jun 8, 2012 5:58:53 GMT 8
IMO, Weiss is right not to play both of them at RB. That position nowadays is required to play in the offense (see Maicon, Lahm, Dani Alves, etc.). Del Rosario cannot do that efficiently (more of a 3rd/4th CB when he plays there). Barbaso is a headless chicken (sorry <_<). He runs fast and is athletic, but he doesn't have the footballing brain to play at the level. We have Schrock who's a natural RB though, but he's apparently too good for our team, and, as a result, he apparently needs to play at midfield. I agree about Barbaso, I actually laughed a little! But seriously, he has the skills as you've said, but lacks "footballing brain" like you said too but isn't it all the more reason to teach him while he's young? And one cannot teach speed, which the kid definitely has. I'm a Barbaso fan but I do somewhat agree with both of you. Yes, he can learn a lot and should be taught but this isn't the job of the National Team staff. He should develop his "footballing brain" either with his club or through personal training. He's young and inspiringly quick so I do hope he grows to be at Azkals starting grade. Someone joked earlier about PBA wannabes trying out football. Though this was in jest, I wonder if some of them do have potential to be a dominant CB? I doubt basketball players have the legs and cardio to play LB and RB, though I've been wrong before.
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Post by Wiking on Jun 8, 2012 10:24:48 GMT 8
Yes you are right re Barbaso, but as I've tried to explain and I think I haven't been clear really, is "integrating" him(or anyone deserving at all) into the team. As we all know one just can't take a player no matter how good he is and have him play with the national team without a hitch. At least have someone in practice as a reserve. As it is know, there is NO ONE who the coach is "integrating" "developing" or "practicing" with the team(talking about the defensive side here). The results will be just like Schrock playing with the team. Great talent but has no knowledge or concept on what his team mates strength and weakness are. The result? 11 vs Schrock, missed passes, no or very few "connection" w/ the team.
Once again I have to ask Weiss, who will he bring on defense at the next tourney? Gener or Margarse? or hope one of the Euros make it? Because as previous tourneys have shown he trusts no one locally.
Look at Marwin, less talent than Schrock yet when he comes in, he is effective(not saying SS isn't) because he practices w/ the team, knows his place on the pitch and connects w/ team mates.
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Post by fadzki on Jun 8, 2012 10:39:17 GMT 8
so the big question Weiss has to answer is he welling to sacrifice the talents from Europe and settle with what we have locally to improve team cohesion?... that is a very difficult choices Coach Weiss has to make...
starting 11 locally and more cohesive unit..
Etheridge or Muller
Carli Sabio Boromeo Dorlas JYH Moy Angeles Caligdong PYH A. Guirado
Subs: Araneta, Gener, Bahadoran
or have the best possible 11 but suffer on the cohesive side...
Etheridge or Muller
Lucena Sabio Boromeo Cagara JYH Mulders J. Guirado Shrock PYH A. Guirado
Subs:Jonnson, Gier, Wolf, ott, De Jong, Carli, Moy, angeles, caligdong
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