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Post by markdelvalle on Feb 20, 2011 15:57:39 GMT 8
true, but we didnt play the higher quality football that we are accustomed to playing now
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Post by cjeagle on Mar 17, 2011 5:30:09 GMT 8
After the 1st game against Mongolia, which is the first under Coach Weiss, I made this observation:
"As for the 2-0 game today, is it just me or even though we controlled most of the possession in the game, I felt that we played a more organized game in the Suzuki cup under McMenemy. There were a lot of errant passes and mistakes which would have been punished by the better SEA teams we played against.
Weiss preaches offensive football, but this can only be played effectively against good opposition if we have the players with the requisite skills for it. We would have been massacred by Vietnam, Indonesia and Singapore if we played so carelessly against them leaving acres of space at the back for their players to capitalize upon.
Fortunately we have more players coming in and to be fair to Coach Weiss who has only been coaching for 3 weeks or so, but I kind of came away disappointed after watching the game. Being a German coach, I expected us to play in a more organized manner like the Germans are famous for and I saw none of that. We will have to just wait and see how things turn out against the better teams"
After the first half in the second game, I again made this observation:
"We shouldn't be playing so open. After scoring that first goal, we should have stayed back and played a little more compact instead of leaving so much space at the back for the Mongols to counterattack. Our defence esp. the back four has been sloppy but the midfield should have gone back faster like they did in the Suzuki cup."
It seems that my observations hasn't changed much from the 1st game to the 2nd. Like most everyone, I thought that the lack of preparation under the new coach in game 1 was mostly responsible for the lack of coordination and organization. That can no longer be used as a valid excuse this time around. Unlike in the first game, we were made to pay for our defensive mistakes.
The question, is how much of this can we attribute to the system Coach Weiss is using. Before the 2nd game he was quoted as saying that he had prepared them well and that the boys are 100% ready to play the game. After the loss, he then said that the players were only playing at 60% of their capacity and him along with everyone else started enumerating the difficulties they encountered in Japan, the missing players and the weather as the probable reasons for this.
In isolation, if you are just considering the 2nd game, this are all valid excuses. But as you can see, inspite of 2-0 win in the first game, we didn't really play that much different from one game to the next. There was the same lack of organization on defence, and as I mentioned after the 1st game, we would eventually be punished for this which is exactly what happened in the 2nd game. This was against a team that was ranked 30 or so spots behind us and had the distinction of being the only team to lose to Guam in men's international competition. In other words, we didn't really improve from one game to the next inspite of the continuous training the team had had under Coach Weiss since Bacolod.
There is nothing wrong with adopting an attacking offensive system. After all Spain won the World Cup recently using just such a system and it is very entertaining to watch. But do we have the players that Spain has. Barcelona from which Spain gets most of its players has trained its players to play this style since they were 8 years old. We on the other hand were flourishing in the Suzuki Cup under a defensive counterattacking style as recently as 4 months ago. Just from watching the 2nd game, even our attacks which Coach Weiss said was much improved from the last game, looked uncoordinated and without purpose while our defence was even worse than the 1st game.
I am of the opinion that the Mongolian coach outcoached Weiss in both games, exhibiting a very compact defensive style that neutralized Phil Younghusband to a large extent and limited the Azkals chances in both games as well as taking advantage of the acres left in the back to launch numerous counterattacks that resulted in both goals. This inspite of the fact that our players were more skilled overall than the Mongolians as our ranking ahead of them suggests.
Is it because Coach Weiss main experience is at the U-17 level where this attacking style is very effective as most players have not yet learned the tactical subtleties esp. in defence, found in men's football at the professional and international level?
Hopefully with the addition of better skilled players(esp. with the Spaniards Angel and Juan Luis Guirado in the mix who are familiar with this style) in subsequent games who can implement Coach Weiss possession oriented attacking style, we can start seeing his system bear fruit. But so far, I am disappointed at the very UnGermanlike(referring to the style that the Germans used to win their previous WCups and not the recent 2 squads that failed to do so) performance of Coach Weiss'es team.
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Post by beho on Mar 17, 2011 10:32:58 GMT 8
After the 1st game against Mongolia, which is the first under Coach Weiss, I made this observation: "As for the 2-0 game today, is it just me or even though we controlled most of the possession in the game, I felt that we played a more organized game in the Suzuki cup under McMenemy. There were a lot of errant passes and mistakes which would have been punished by the better SEA teams we played against. Weiss preaches offensive football, but this can only be played effectively against good opposition if we have the players with the requisite skills for it. We would have been massacred by Vietnam, Indonesia and Singapore if we played so carelessly against them leaving acres of space at the back for their players to capitalize upon. Fortunately we have more players coming in and to be fair to Coach Weiss who has only been coaching for 3 weeks or so, but I kind of came away disappointed after watching the game. Being a German coach, I expected us to play in a more organized manner like the Germans are famous for and I saw none of that. We will have to just wait and see how things turn out against the better teams" After the first half in the second game, I again made this observation: "We shouldn't be playing so open. After scoring that first goal, we should have stayed back and played a little more compact instead of leaving so much space at the back for the Mongols to counterattack. Our defence esp. the back four has been sloppy but the midfield should have gone back faster like they did in the Suzuki cup." It seems that my observations hasn't changed much from the 1st game to the 2nd. Like most everyone, I thought that the lack of preparation under the new coach in game 1 was mostly responsible for the lack of coordination and organization. That can no longer be used as a valid excuse this time around. Unlike in the first game, we were made to pay for our defensive mistakes. The question, is how much of this can we attribute to the system Coach Weiss is using. Before the 2nd game he was quoted as saying that he had prepared them well and that the boys are 100% ready to play the game. After the loss, he then said that the players were only playing at 60% of their capacity and him along with everyone else started enumerating the difficulties they encountered in Japan, the missing players and the weather as the probable reasons for this. In isolation, if you are just considering the 2nd game, this are all valid excuses. But as you can see, inspite of 2-0 win in the first game, we didn't really play that much different from one game to the next. There was the same lack of organization on defence, and as I mentioned after the 1st game, we would eventually be punished for this which is exactly what happened in the 2nd game. This was against a team that was ranked 40 or spots behind us and had the distinction of being the only team to lose to Guam in men's international competition. In other words, we didn't really improve from one game to the next inspite of the continuous training the team had had under Coach Weiss since Bacolod. There is nothing wrong with adopting an attacking offensive system. After all Spain won the World Cup recently using just such a system and it is very entertaining to watch. But do we have the players that Spain has. Barcelona from which Spain gets most of its players has trained its players to play this style since they were 8 years old. We on the other hand were flourishing in the Suzuki Cup under a defensive counterattacking style as recently as 4 months ago. Just from watching the 2nd game, even our attacks which Coach Weiss said was much improved from the last game, looked uncoordinated and without purpose while our defence was even worse than the 1st game. I am of the opinion that the Mongolian coach outcoached Weiss in both games, exhibiting a very compact defensive style that neutralized Phil Younghusband to a large extent and limited the Azkals chances in both games as well as taking advantage of the acres left in the back to launch numerous counterattacks that resulted in both goals. This inspite of the fact that our players were more skilled overall than the Mongolians as our ranking ahead of them suggests. Is it because Coach Weiss main experience is at the U-17 level where this attacking style is very effective as most players have not yet learned the tactical subtleties esp. in defence, found in men's football at the professional and international level? Hopefully with the addition of better skilled players(esp. with the Spaniards Angel and Juan Luis Guirado in the mix who are familiar with this style) in subsequent games who can implement Coach Weiss possession oriented attacking style, we can start seeing his system bear fruit. But so far, I am disappointed at the very UnGermanlike(referring to the style that the Germans used to win their previous WCups and not the recent 2 squads that failed to do so) performance of Coach Weiss'es team. ;Dgood observation, but their's no way that coach weiss was outcoached by the mongolian coach twice. weiss was not outcoached during the 1st leg, no way. but during the 2nd leg yes maybe. how could you say the mongolian coach did a good job during the first leg, i mean why did'nt he asked his team to play offensive football why did they virtually park the bus during the first leg notwithstanding his team is very much capable of scoring against the azkals as what we saw on the 2nd leg(no excuse there it was the mngolian,s coach error period)& for you to say that the recent 2 german squads' failure to win the world cup was because of the system weiss's employing was ineffective & the reason of the failure is absurd! there's so many different factors in winning the world cup & you just can't blame the coaching system was the reason of the failure, no matter what kind of an expert you are you can never really tell. ;D
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Post by cjeagle on Mar 17, 2011 11:16:13 GMT 8
Beho, You are taking my observations out of context. I think the Germans in the last 2 World Cups did a fabulous job. I never said they failed. They were able to be effective with their new system because they now have the personnel to attack effectively with it without losing too much in the way of defence. They were unlucky in the end but they nevertheles had very formidable squads who in the coming world cup 2014 as they mature( as they were relatively young in 2010) could finish the job. Their previous WCup winning teams were famous for shutting down much better technical teams like Brazil, Spain and the Netherlands by playing an organized counterattacking system which fit the personnel they had at that time. I am just saying that we do not have the personnel at this time to act in such a manner. As you can see in Japan, we risked losing in a rout against the better teams if we persist in such a manner. If we stay organized, we could keep it close and possibly even upset stronger teams than ours once in a while. As for the first game, the Mongolians were playing an away game. The objective in away games for more or less equal strength teams, is to gain either a draw or to lose by a very low margin. To do that , they basically parked the bus like we did at the Suzuki Cup. They concentrated on shutting down Phil Y and stayed mostly in their own half of the pitch. They employed a very compact defence that stymied most of our attacks. As I mentioned, we are a much stronger offensive team than they are and I believed they recognized that and kept back to minimize the deficit. They were behind by only 1 goal for most of the match until Phil scored the 2nd goal near the end, and the one goal deficit would have been an acceptable disadvantage to bring to the harsh confines of Mongolia where they were expecting to makeup the deficit which they nearly did. Lastly I never said I was an expert. That was just my observation on the previous 2 games and my opinion. If you disagree I respect that and I truly hope that with the new personnel, that Weiss's system will work for us. As I said I love watching how Spain plays and I wish we could play like that.
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Post by beho on Mar 17, 2011 11:58:44 GMT 8
Beho, You are taking my observations out of context. I think the Germans in the last 2 World Cups did a fabulous job. I never said they failed. They were able to be effective with their new system because they now have the personnel to attack effectively with it without losing too much in the way of defence. They were unlucky in the end but they nevertheles had very formidable squads who in the coming world cup 2014 as they mature( as they were relatively young in 2010) could finish the job. Their previous WCup winning teams were famous for shutting down much better technical teams like Brazil, Spain and the Netherlands by playing an organized counterattacking system which fit the personnel they had at that time. I am just saying that we do not have the personnel at this time to act in such a manner. As you can see in Japan, we risked losing in a rout against the better teams if we persist in such a manner. If we stay organized, we could keep it close and possibly even upset stronger teams than ours once in a while. As for the first game, the Mongolians were playing an away game. The objective in away games for more or less equal strength teams, is to gain either a draw or to lose by a very low margin. To do that , they basically parked the bus like we did at the Suzuki Cup. They concentrated on shutting down Phil Y and stayed mostly in their own half of the pitch. They employed a very compact defence that stymied most of our attacks. As I mentioned, we are a much stronger offensive team than they are and I believed they recognized that and kept back to minimize the deficit. They were behind by only 1 goal for most of the match until Phil scored the 2nd goal near the end, and the one goal deficit would have been an acceptable disadvantage to bring to the harsh confines of Mongolia where they were expecting to makeup the deficit which they nearly did. Lastly I never said I was an expert. That was just my observation on the previous 2 games and my opinion. If you disagree I respect that and I truly hope that with the new personnel, that Weiss's system will work for us. As I said I love watching how Spain plays and I wish we could play like that. ;Di never told you that you're an expert, i said even IF you're an expert, that's what i've meant, ok? peace! ;D
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Post by Caz on Mar 17, 2011 11:58:41 GMT 8
I felt we played pretty well in the first few minutes of the game. In fact we scored a goal pretty early showing a form that outclassed Mongolia for sure. However, we've discussed in the past how ill the planned acclimatization preparations of the team was and it showed during the game. After the first few minutes many noted a sluggish-looking team. So it's hard for me to judge Weiss for now. I chalk this one up to the cold, the thermal wear, and the altitude. I'm sure the absence of several key players made a difference as well. Anyways, job done, we advance. We can really dissect Weiss' tutelage in Myanmar.
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Post by beho on Mar 17, 2011 12:05:08 GMT 8
I felt we played pretty well in the first few minutes of the game. In fact we scored a goal pretty early showing a form that outclassed Mongolia for sure. However, we've discussed in the past how ill the planned acclimatization preparations of the team was and it showed during the game. After the first few minutes many noted a sluggish-looking team. So it's hard for me to judge Weiss for now. I chalk this one up to the cold, the thermal wear, and the altitude. I'm sure the absence of several key players made a difference as well. Anyways, job done, we advance. We can really dissect Weiss' tutelage in Myanmar. ;Di agree with you boss caz, yeah, let's wait after the mar. 21 game before anything else! ;D
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Post by curtlanceunited on Mar 17, 2011 12:31:33 GMT 8
We have to admit that the style of Weiss is really better than that of McMenemy. I mean seriously during the Suzuki Cup, our midfielders was just tackling balls no proper link-up with our forwards whatsoever. With Weiss the team has better Link Def-to-Midfield-Midfield-to-Forward .. We can't expect Weiss' system to be an instant Hit because its impossible for a team to adopt to another system overnight. The team just needs to play and practice more and in due time the system of coach Weiss' will pay dividends. In Mongolia, we can't say that the Mongolian coach outsmarted or out-coached Weiss because we have to put into consideration the sub-zero conditions that has been aggravating to the team. The two goals that the Mongolians scored might have been also a result of Bad Refeereing. The first goal looked off-side but not sure because of the bad camera-work and the penalty looked liked outside the Box. We cant really tell. My point is that, under Weiss, the Azkals are playing better football and I believe that in Due time his system will prove to be a better and the one that's suitable for us.
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Post by jvictor on Mar 17, 2011 12:59:32 GMT 8
Maybe we can get Weiss us our head coach and McMenemy as assistant coach?
Weiss can take care of the Forward and Midfielders and McMenemy can polish on our Defense.
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Post by cjeagle on Mar 17, 2011 13:06:12 GMT 8
I am advocating a system, not a coach. McMenemy has already been hired by a Vietnamese club and is unavailable. What I was really hoping for was an old fashioned German coach who plays organized counterattacking football not the English direct longball style employed by McMenemy. Those old fashioned Germans won those World Cups against admittedly superior technical teams. I am just disappointed how different Weiss turned out to be. We have lost defensive shape in our haste to attack in both games against Mongolia and this is unacceptable when Beckenbauer was still playing. They were good at moving the ball from one side to other looking for weaknesses in the opposing defences and definitely had no problems linking their defence to the offence without losing defensive shape.
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Post by Caz on Mar 17, 2011 14:05:55 GMT 8
Weren't Weiss' interships outside of Germany? That might be why his philosophy is different.
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Post by cjeagle on Mar 17, 2011 14:11:12 GMT 8
that is probably true Caz. Well with the 2 Spanish Guirado brothers maybe he can make his system work. I am certainly looking forward to seeing what Angel can do in Myanmar.
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Post by vimjonk on Mar 17, 2011 15:12:44 GMT 8
cjeaglespot on. you put into words what i am thinking about our current AzKals. my friends ;D would attribute it to me being a pro Macca fantard defense first before offense. initially rigid formation before progressing into a fluid and dynamic attacking mentality. with our current playing strategy, im 100% sure that we would be slaughtered by Indonesia, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand. our previous disciplined defensive organization is virtually non-existent that 3 months ago, made us only to concede 2 "chamba" goals against Indonesia from a very high quality South American striker.
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Post by Caz on Mar 17, 2011 20:28:32 GMT 8
Personally, I'm an advocate of Macca's defensive strategy as well. It's something we're used to and become good at, defending against a barrage of strikes. And under Simon it became really really disciplined. With the other team committing so many players forward to break our walls, it left our offense with plenty of room to strike. And it gives Neil with plenty of opportunities to shine! But that's with our current stars. With all these new Azkals coming in, a lot of which are strikers or midfielders, maybe the time is right to move on to an offensive style of play. So I too am excited to see this "new" Philippine team. Myanmar will be a real test and gauge to see if Weiss' ways do us good.
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Post by cjeagle on Mar 18, 2011 5:34:36 GMT 8
cjeaglespot on. you put into words what i am thinking about our current AzKals. my friends ;D would attribute it to me being a pro Macca fantard defense first before offense. initially rigid formation before progressing into a fluid and dynamic attacking mentality. with our current playing strategy, im 100% sure that we would be slaughtered by Indonesia, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand. our previous disciplined defensive organization is virtually non-existent that 3 months ago, made us only to concede 2 "chamba" goals against Indonesia from a very high quality South American striker. buddha feels the same way. When we face stronger teams in WC qualifying I am afraid we will see inflated scores like we used to have awhile ago unless Weiss is pragmatic enough to pull back and play a more compact defence. In many ways Weiss is the complete opposite of McMenemy who is too defensive. The old Germans didn't really park the bus unless they are a man or two down or they are protecting a lead against a good opponent. McMenemy does it all the time. Weiss encourages his players to attack to the point of losing defensive shape and leaving yourself vulnerable to quick counterattack by an alert opponent. All I want for them is to play a more compact formation like the old Germans did while giving yourself the flexibility to move forward on offence and then immediately rush back to avoid leaving holes.
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