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Post by narko on Jun 6, 2011 15:06:29 GMT 8
Guys, you might want to look at our defensive midfield area also. This could also partly explain the defensive lapses. Without good cover in front of them, such as a holding mid acting as a mobile shield whose primary purpose is to stifle the opposing team's offense, defense gets under a lot of pressure and could cause them to make those silly mistakes. Not making excuses for the defenders as they need to improve also, but just pointing out that we should look at the defensive midfield line too.
Lucena was supposed to bring in stability in that area as he is a natural holding mid, other than him and co-opting Aly into that role (raising the question on who replaces Aly in the center of defense), who else plays solidly enough in a defensive midfield role?
Defensive mids are supposed to be the ball-winners. They are supposed stop the other team from gaining momentum in their attack, they buy time by harassing the opposition offense so the defense can recover and retain their shape. If need be, holding mids also are crucial in holding the ball to ensure transitions are smooth and not haphazardly executed. That seems to be lacking in the Azkals' game and it leaves the defense with a lot to cover and do to stop the opposing offense. They will need to work on improving this aspect of their game.
Weiss seems to prefer a more open game in his system, and the Azkals have a tendency to over-commit in the offense. It makes it easy for the other team to play between our lines and exploit gaps as the Azkals push up high on offense. In yesterday's game there were several instances where the UFL All-Stars comfortably received a defensive clearance near the halfway line as there was no Azkals in the area to disrupt the counter, everyone except the backline was up near the UFL box.
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Post by vimjonk on Jun 6, 2011 15:56:05 GMT 8
narkoYour last paragraph neatly summarizes the the AzKals playing philosophy. Every one is up there attacking with a very high Barcelona-level backline. The problem is they don't have Mascherano, Pique and Puyol playing for them ;D I don't think a simple anchoring defensive mids would solve the defensive problem of the AzKals. For me, the are trying to play a system that is beyond the current technical capability of the players.
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Post by narko on Jun 6, 2011 16:38:31 GMT 8
I agree with the points you raised vimjonk. Anchoring mids alone would not solve the defensive problem. I believe I also mentioned that the defenders also need to improve, plus the fact that they should be able to achieve some form of balance in their play.
They can play a high line and overload the box if they wish, but they must also be aware of the risk in that sort of game and be prepared to deal with quick counterattacks aimed at exploiting the gaps and spaces they leave behind as they push up.
One example from the game yesterday is the second goal. Greatwich scored with a follow-up at the far post near the touchline. Burkey was within a meter of him. Phil, James and Aly were inside the box too trying to get a header off the corner kick. Misagh was at the edge of the penalty area to the right. With the one who took the corner kick (Chieffy?), that's seven players inside the opposing third of the field with 5 inside the box including the 2 central midfielders and a centerback. With Sabio at the halfway line and Anton and Gener out wide midway from the half and the box, the central zone between the edge of the penalty area and the center circle was empty. If they didn't score a goal, they were waiting to get punished with a quick counter through the middle that would only need 2 people to cut through that stretched backline.
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Post by cjeagle on Jun 7, 2011 0:01:27 GMT 8
narko,
This defensive issue has been discussed thoroughly in the Coach Weiss thread. His system might work if we have the right players and hopefully the addition of experienced players in Europe will help address this issue. Lucena in an interview said that from watching previous games, he sees as his main responsibility is to help organize the defence, as he observed that inexperienced teams like the Philippines tend to be tactically naive when it comes to maintaining their defensive formation and lack discipline. With him assuming the defensive mid in the Challenge Cup group games, they only gave up 1 goal in 3 games which was in marked contrast with the Mongolia games where the Mongolians launched numerous counterattacks behind the defensive line which they used to upset the Azkals in the 2nd game. Hopefully Lucena recovers from his Achilles injury in time to play in Germany and the Sri Lanka games.
Aly Borromeo even mentioned in his tweets before the game that he is going to try to score a couple of goals. That is what you get from a player who plays midfield and occasionally forward for his club. As a centerback, his main concern should be to prevent goals and as captain help organize the defence.
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Post by vimjonk on Jun 7, 2011 7:11:05 GMT 8
cjeaglein the last Challenge Cup that Lucena plays there are still lots of instances that AzKals defence caught stranded upfield. This is especially obvious during the match against Myanmar and Palestine. there several instances that Neil have to do spectacular saves and goalkeeper doing spectacular saves is not a good sign for the team. they are just lucky that the Myanmar and Palestine forwards are intimidated by the presence of Neil and botch the effort. what happens in the UFL All Stars games last Sunday is the same as what happens during the last Challenge Cup matches. the only difference is that UFL All Stars are not intimidated by Neil and the result is 4 goals conceded. Replace the All Star goalkeeper Villaflor with Neil Etheridge and you've got a 4-0 scoreline. We can't do an open style game with a very attacking mindset since our forwards and midfielders are not able to hold the ball and lack the necessary techniques and do not have the necessary fitness to maintain constant pressing. High backlines needs constant pressing and even England NT could not do it. As what Capello said, the English NT players do not have the necessary fitness. If England NT can't do it so much more is the AzKals. If Weiss philosophy is an open system then we could safely say the he is not the proper coach for the AzKals as Mourinho is not the proper coach for Real Madrid.
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Post by narko on Jun 7, 2011 13:06:27 GMT 8
cjeagle, I like the points you raised, especially the one about Aly. It appears that coach Weiss is still in the process of finding the right players for his system and working with those he has to get them to a level where they can function effectively within his system. This will take time.
I mentioned this on the other thread comparing McMenemy and Weiss: what is key to this approach (otherwise it becomes pointless) on a long term and strategic level is to begin standardizing training and coaching at the youth and grassroots level so that the skills, technical abilities, fitness and footballing intelligence necessary to play in the system envisioned for the Azkals are developed in our young local and homegrown players. With an established system in place, it also makes scouting foreign-based players easier and more efficient, as the coaching staff already knows what types of players they need.
To go back to your point about Aly, it would serve the Azkals better if Aly plays the same position in his club that he does with the Azkals. At the level of international competitions where there is so little time to prepare together for matches, it is important to have your players play in very much the same way they do for their clubs. It would be very difficult to get a player to adjust to playing out of his regular or familiar position with players he doesn't play with on a regular basis.
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Post by cjeagle on Jun 7, 2011 13:43:24 GMT 8
I agree with you narko. Whatever philosophy the national team adopts should be taught at all levels from the U-17 youth teams to the U-23 teams so there would be consistency in the way the players adjust from level to level. As for younger age groups, they need to emphasize skill development and technique more than using tactical systems. Technical skills are best developed at a very young age and this should be emphasized starting as early as 6 years old.
As for defensive mid, too bad Vincent Ocampo had a knee injury. His coach describes him as a complete player, tactically aware as well as being able to contribute offensively.
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Post by narko on Jun 7, 2011 15:38:00 GMT 8
cjeagle, regarding the younger age groups there should be a debate regarding how we treat youth football here in the Philippines at the levels below U12. In my opinion which I share with others, football games at levels below U12 should not be too competitive. An overemphasis on winning will stunt the development of the players. Coaches will get pressured by parents to win games and the tendency is that development of skills is forgotten and set aside in favor of winning.
The way to develop skills and technique is to allow children to be brave enough to try those skills in a game without fear of being shouted at or scolded if they make a mistake. Mistakes can't be made at higher levels, but they should be allowed at very young ages so children develop the confidence and skill required to develop good technique.
A 6 or even 8 year old shouldn't be afraid to try to dribble through 4 defenders if he thinks he can do it and he should be allowed to do it without consequence if he fails. If they are not allowed to take risks to get better at individual skills because it is more important to make sure they win the game, they will be technically deficient as they get older. I mean how do you develop good ball dribbling? Messi didn't get to be that good if he wasn't allowed to try it again and again until he became really good at it. I bet you in his early days he lost the ball many times trying to dribble through defenders.
I've seen 7 a side games here in Manila for U10s where the goalie would kick the ball straight to the opposing side's goal for a team mate to get a touch to direct it to goal. What are they learning from that? What skills are developed there? I credit the coach of one team from Cebu who would forbid his goalie to boot it up to the other goal even if they were losing but would require them to play it out of their half on the ground.
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Post by toxin5 on Jun 7, 2011 18:39:14 GMT 8
Mark Hartmann really deserves a spot in our NT. good in CAM or Center Attacking Midfield. he could be our KAKA. scored 7 goals in just 2 games in UFL. =) A single game doesn't determine everything!........also a professional coach sees something that a normal and amateur football fan cannot see.........bottomline is let the professionals handle this we are not on the position to question it because we are only amateurs.
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Post by vimjonk on Jun 7, 2011 19:18:29 GMT 8
... I credit the coach of one team from Cebu who would forbid his goalie to boot it up to the other goal even if they were losing but would require them to play it out of their half on the ground. ahh, you've seen the unwritten pact/agreement among coaches of elementary level kids in Cebu
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Post by akosiabab on Jun 7, 2011 19:28:55 GMT 8
cjeaglein the last Challenge Cup that Lucena plays there are still lots of instances that AzKals defence caught stranded upfield. This is especially obvious during the match against Myanmar and Palestine. there several instances that Neil have to do spectacular saves and goalkeeper doing spectacular saves is not a good sign for the team. they are just lucky that the Myanmar and Palestine forwards are intimidated by the presence of Neil and botch the effort. what happens in the UFL All Stars games last Sunday is the same as what happens during the last Challenge Cup matches. the only difference is that UFL All Stars are not intimidated by Neil and the result is 4 goals conceded. Replace the All Star goalkeeper Villaflor with Neil Etheridge and you've got a 4-0 scoreline. We can't do an open style game with a very attacking mindset since our forwards and midfielders are not able to hold the ball and lack the necessary techniques and do not have the necessary fitness to maintain constant pressing. High backlines needs constant pressing and even England NT could not do it. As what Capello said, the English NT players do not have the necessary fitness. If England NT can't do it so much more is the AzKals. If Weiss philosophy is an open system then we could safely say the he is not the proper coach for the AzKals as Mourinho is not the proper coach for Real Madrid. dito naman si magaling. hahaha. ipanalo mo muna team mo sa elementary level sa cebu. hahaha
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Post by akosiabab on Jun 7, 2011 19:31:34 GMT 8
... I credit the coach of one team from Cebu who would forbid his goalie to boot it up to the other goal even if they were losing but would require them to play it out of their half on the ground. ahh, you've seen the unwritten pact/agreement among coaches of elementary level kids in Cebu FYI lang NARKO VMJONK magaling na coach yan sa elementary level sa cebu. tanunign mo lng kung cnu magaling sa elementary level sa cebu kilala na cya
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Post by akosiabab on Jun 7, 2011 19:32:40 GMT 8
narkoYour last paragraph neatly summarizes the the AzKals playing philosophy. Every one is up there attacking with a very high Barcelona-level backline. The problem is they don't have Mascherano, Pique and Puyol playing for them ;D I don't think a simple anchoring defensive mids would solve the defensive problem of the AzKals. For me, the are trying to play a system that is beyond the current technical capability of the players. magaling ka pa sa level mag coach ni weis? come on international level na sya and hes more experience
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Post by vimjonk on Jun 7, 2011 19:44:28 GMT 8
hey f*ck off abab and get off my back.
you seem to have some sort of fetish with me. go find another, you're not my type.
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Post by akosiabab on Jun 7, 2011 20:24:01 GMT 8
hey f*ck off abab and get off my back. you seem to have some sort of fetish with me. go find another, you're not my type. ito ba ang tinuturo mo coach sa players mo?ah kaya pala
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