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Post by kaligo on Dec 30, 2010 2:04:37 GMT 8
David Bunevacz was supposed to be the Golden Boy of Philippine Track and Field. Patafa invested a lot of him (despite having no idea what he was capable of) and that pissed off a lot of locals. Bunevacz bombed out in the Decathlon, I don't think he even won a medal.
Beho, this year's team got lots and lots of heart, too. That 2-2 and 1-1 draw against Laos and Singapore proved that. We also saw that in the semifinals.
P.S. you're last comment made me curious. Was this hypothetical question designed to compare the two teams or to tell who among the current fans were aware of the football team back in 1991? Were you a member of the 1991 team?
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Post by samhain13 on Dec 30, 2010 5:43:00 GMT 8
OT: Also, in the early 1990s, the concept of getting fil-foreigners was unheard (if not absent) I think this started with the failed experiment by Patafa on David Bunevacz. I wouldn't say so. Remember Ricky Brown? OnT: I agree with buddha. The level of competition between then and now is different so what might be a respectable finish for one set of guys in a given time; may not be a respectable finish for another set of guys in another time; may be a very strong finish for yet another set of guys in yet another time. The 1991 SEA Games was held in Manila, at a time when football was still waning (remember that we did have a somewhat pro league in the 80's but it was disbanded because of a number of controversies) and that the 1991 players would have benefited from that previous "high time" and somewhat professional environment. We also had the home advantage over the four teams we played against. A 3rd place finish at that time would have been respectable-- but 4th place? Fast forward to the 2005 SEA Games held in Bacolod. Minus the "somewhat pro"-- despite having the Younghusbands on the team-- quality of the 1991 squad but given the same home court advantage, a 4th place finish would have been respectable. Fast forward to the 2010 AFF Suzuki Cup. We had a "somewhat pro" team that had to undergo 3 qualifying matches and 3 group matches, none of which carried a home court advantage while 2 carried an away disadvantage (vs Laos, and vs Vietnam). This 2010 team did not lose in 6 matches and conceded only 3 goals; at the same time, they overturned one of the disadvantaged games (vs Vietnam) in record-breaking fashion. A semi-final finish in this campaign is more than respectable-- and even our opponents tell us that.
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Post by beho on Dec 30, 2010 10:00:21 GMT 8
David Bunevacz was supposed to be the Golden Boy of Philippine Track and Field. Patafa invested a lot of him (despite having no idea what he was capable of) and that pissed off a lot of locals. Bunevacz bombed out in the Decathlon, I don't think he even won a medal. Beho, this year's team got lots and lots of heart, too. That 2-2 and 1-1 draw against Laos and Singapore proved that. We also saw that in the semifinals. P.S. you're last comment made me curious. Was this hypothetical question designed to compare the two teams or to tell who among the current fans were aware of the football team back in 1991? Were you a member of the 1991 team? no i'm not a member of that team, true i'm a former soccer player , i've played against norman figiderio once or twice, but i've never reached the highest potential of being a soccer player of this country bec. of the pull of basketball, i switched sports from football to basketball anyway so much for that, have you seen elmer bedia play, if anyone in the present team plays like him. the phil team surely will be formidable upfront, & this is the position that the present team sorely lacks! true?
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Post by beho on Dec 30, 2010 10:14:52 GMT 8
OT: Also, in the early 1990s, the concept of getting fil-foreigners was unheard (if not absent) I think this started with the failed experiment by Patafa on David Bunevacz. I wouldn't say so. Remember Ricky Brown? OnT: I agree with buddha. The level of competition between then and now is different so what might be a respectable finish for one set of guys in a given time; may not be a respectable finish for another set of guys in another time; may be a very strong finish for yet another set of guys in yet another time. The 1991 SEA Games was held in Manila, at a time when football was still waning (remember that we did have a somewhat pro league in the 80's but it was disbanded because of a number of controversies) and that the 1991 players would have benefited from that previous "high time" and somewhat professional environment. We also had the home advantage over the four teams we played against. A 3rd place finish at that time would have been respectable-- but 4th place? Fast forward to the 2005 SEA Games held in Bacolod. Minus the "somewhat pro"-- despite having the Younghusbands on the team-- quality of the 1991 squad but given the same home court advantage, a 4th place finish would have been respectable. Fast forward to the 2010 AFF Suzuki Cup. We had a "somewhat pro" team that had to undergo 3 qualifying matches and 3 group matches, none of which carried a home court advantage while 2 carried an away disadvantage (vs Laos, and vs Vietnam). This 2010 team did not lose in 6 matches and conceded only 3 goals; at the same time, they overturned one of the disadvantaged games (vs Vietnam) in record-breaking fashion. A semi-final finish in this campaign is more than respectable-- and even our opponents tell us that. Generally, i agree with you that the present team is a better team than the 1991 team however, i can safely say the 1991 team was a more exciting team(bec. of the triumvirate of bedia, del rosario & figiderio the goal scorer vs. malaysia), its hard to explain ,i've seen both teams play & i'm just kind of frustrated with the present team's forward line, ian araneta simply was'nt good enough for his spot, maybe in the future he will but as of now he's not! i hope the national training pool could find someone who plays in the mold of elmer bedia(does anyone here have seen him play?) surely he would create a lot of problems for the opposing teams & make it more competitive & surely more exciting!
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Post by alexleg on Dec 30, 2010 11:34:15 GMT 8
OT: i think the idea of scouting and recruiting fil-fors started in the early 90s in the UAAP basketball. It was a surpsrise back then where recruiting was limited to HS and province. I think this was before David Bunevacz
on topic:
I have seen the 1991 on tv...
IMO..the present squad defense is good enough against the forwards of 1991
Neil Ethridge + a sold back 4+ 2 great tackling holding midfield
they held against their own against the Singapore naturalize forwards, Vietnam stars and Gonzales(Uruguay, Irfan(former Ajax youth), Okto and BamBam.
I believe the forwards the current Azkals faced in Suzuki are much better than Bedia and Figiderio.
On set plays and corners...the present has an advantage where some of its players are near 6'0 feet.
Despite the lack of skilled striker..the current one can score in a counter.
the current suzuki squad didnt have ott and gould...it would have made the offense of the team better.
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Post by beho on Dec 30, 2010 14:35:17 GMT 8
OT: i think the idea of scouting and recruiting fil-fors started in the early 90s in the UAAP basketball. It was a surpsrise back then where recruiting was limited to HS and province. I think this was before David Bunevacz on topic: I have seen the 1991 on tv... IMO..the present squad defense is good enough against the forwards of 1991 Neil Ethridge + a sold back 4+ 2 great tackling holding midfield they held against their own against the Singapore naturalize forwards, Vietnam stars and Gonzales(Uruguay, Irfan(former Ajax youth), Okto and BamBam. I believe the forwards the current Azkals faced in Suzuki are much better than Bedia and Figiderio. On set plays and corners...the present has an advantage where some of its players are near 6'0 feet. Despite the lack of skilled striker..the current one can score in a counter. the current suzuki squad didnt have ott and gould...it would have made the offense of the team better. have you seen bedia play before? i think you're too young to remember him & how he made a lot of problems for the opposing teams, i can bet my house there's no one in the current national team's forward line who is better than bedia especially in creating scoring opportunities! [/quote]
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Post by alexleg on Dec 30, 2010 15:05:23 GMT 8
I didn't say anything that the current forward line is better in fact I agree with you but if you read my post I said the frontline azkals faced in Suzuki are better than our 91 forwards...since you are an expert how good are they compared to okto, gonzale, bambam, viet and sg forwards?
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Post by beho on Dec 30, 2010 15:47:48 GMT 8
I didn't say anything that the current forward line is better in fact I agree with you but if you read my post I said the frontline azkals faced in Suzuki are better than our 91 forwards...since you are an expert how good are they compared to okto, gonzale, bambam, viet and sg forwards? in my opinion, bedia is one of the best in creating scoring opportunities . however, his weakness is his scoring percentage is not that good. he is a better winger than a striker. anyways, what i'm tryng to drive at is the story of the phil team in the recent suzuki cup could have been better or more exciting had the phil team came up with a better winger & striker, except this two positions, i believe the current team are much better than the 1991 team. peace!
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Post by samhain13 on Dec 30, 2010 16:36:47 GMT 8
Generally, i agree with you that the present team is a better team than the 1991 team however, i can safely say the 1991 team was a more exciting team(bec. of the triumvirate of bedia, del rosario & figiderio the goal scorer vs. malaysia), its hard to explain ,i've seen both teams play & i'm just kind of frustrated with the present team's forward line, ian araneta simply was'nt good enough for his spot, maybe in the future he will but as of now he's not! i hope the national training pool could find someone who plays in the mold of elmer bedia(does anyone here have seen him play?) surely he would create a lot of problems for the opposing teams & make it more competitive & surely more exciting! I think excitement, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder-- if you think that the 1991 team was more exciting to watch, then who are we to say otherwise? But that goes both ways. I have to agree though that the offensive capabilities of the 2010 team needs improvement, and I can only hope that that improvement comes sooner rather than later. But I'd stop there because we really can't compare Araneta with Bedia (or P. Younghusband with N. Figidero) since they didn't play with and against the same people-- it's hard to find a basis for making a decent comparison. No disrespect to any one, but how was Bedia's finishing? How many goals actually came from all the scoring opportunities that he created or that his team created for him?
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Post by beho on Dec 31, 2010 1:04:02 GMT 8
Generally, i agree with you that the present team is a better team than the 1991 team however, i can safely say the 1991 team was a more exciting team(bec. of the triumvirate of bedia, del rosario & figiderio the goal scorer vs. malaysia), its hard to explain ,i've seen both teams play & i'm just kind of frustrated with the present team's forward line, ian araneta simply was'nt good enough for his spot, maybe in the future he will but as of now he's not! i hope the national training pool could find someone who plays in the mold of elmer bedia(does anyone here have seen him play?) surely he would create a lot of problems for the opposing teams & make it more competitive & surely more exciting! I think excitement, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder-- if you think that the 1991 team was more exciting to watch, then who are we to say otherwise? But that goes both ways. I have to agree though that the offensive capabilities of the 2010 team needs improvement, and I can only hope that that improvement comes sooner rather than later. But I'd stop there because we really can't compare Araneta with Bedia (or P. Younghusband with N. Figidero) since they didn't play with and against the same people-- it's hard to find a basis for making a decent comparison. No disrespect to any one, but how was Bedia's finishing? How many goals actually came from all the scoring opportunities that he created or that his team created for him? + i don't have the exact numbers, based on being an observer of the game during the oldtimer's heydays bedia did'nt posess the striker's touch , he missed a lot of scoring opportunities however, he's very good in creating one, it's very hard to understand unless you've actually watched how they play. back in 1991 there was no internet etc.so i'm just hoping that someone(who have actually seen them play) could back me up of what i've been saying.
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Post by samhain13 on Jan 1, 2011 23:04:31 GMT 8
^ Hehehe! I've seen a lot of RP Teams play in the past as well-- and I remember being frustrated with how pre-Freddie Gonzalez teams had a difficult time converting their chances.
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Post by beho on Jan 2, 2011 21:10:53 GMT 8
^ Hehehe! I've seen a lot of RP Teams play in the past as well-- and I remember being frustrated with how pre-Freddie Gonzalez teams had a difficult time converting their chances. ;)yeah you're right phil. football was the laughing stock of asia that time, you're right the 1991 squad was a pre-freddy gonzales (only filipino to play in the vietnam pro league)but 1991 phil team was kind of different they really did well against its opponents (especially the forwards, they missed a lot of scoring opportunities though), just hope someone here who can remember the 1991 phil. squad could attest to what i've been saying. peace!
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Post by goonerph on Jan 6, 2011 8:03:11 GMT 8
With Etheridge between the posts plus a monster of a back four, the current team will keep a clean sheet. Batch '91 would probably not survive an aerial bombardment as well. Did I just read the name Bunevacz? He scored home and away against us in Jakarta last month.
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Post by xyz1000 on Jan 6, 2011 9:10:18 GMT 8
The 1991 SEA Games was held in Manila, at a time when football was still waning (remember that we did have a somewhat pro league in the 80's but it was disbanded because of a number of controversies) ... Now this is something I've never heard about. A somewhat pro league that failed. Was it anything like the current UFL and not just a small tournament? I'd like to hear more about this and why it failed. Would appreciate your input.
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Post by samhain13 on Jan 6, 2011 14:20:04 GMT 8
Now this is something I've never heard about. A somewhat pro league that failed. Was it anything like the current UFL and not just a small tournament? I'd like to hear more about this and why it failed. Would appreciate your input. I forget what it's called but from what little I know about the UFL, it was different in that the players had salaries. And from what I've been told, the league folded when the players refused to play because their managers wouldn't release their salaries.
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