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Post by stellarboy on Aug 31, 2011 11:53:48 GMT 8
Another crazy thinking, the possible U-23 lineup. Yeah, Weiss is too much pressured by the media and the PFF, but maybe we can help with what he would do to the squad in the SEA Games. Here's what I'll do, take the current prospects for the U-23, and put it with my own "fearless forecast" for the formation. For now, I'll do the "park the bus" 4-5-1. May I remind you that they are still prospects, so don't blame me for putting them here. Here it is for my starting XI: Mueller Ott - J. Barbaso - De Jong - D. Basa M. MacMahon - M. Drinkuth - S. Greatwich - Hinrichsen - O.J. Porteria Tuason
Subs: P. Pascual (GK), J. Hall (MF), M. Ferrer (DF)
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Post by Wiking on Aug 31, 2011 18:32:24 GMT 8
I have read from Pinoy Exchange: "that line-up is Weiss Pep envy". That is a copy of the last Barcelona-Villareal match. 1 defender and 6 midfielders. Actually Cagara is a natural LB and Lucena plays RB. Ott meanwhile usually plays the mid. I wonder what he sees in Ott that would lead him to place him at outside back? Speed?
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Post by feindouno on Aug 31, 2011 19:13:39 GMT 8
If Ott is a natural CM and Schrock is a natural RB, then why would Weiss prefer putting Schrock at CM and Ott at RB? I guess it's a philosophy in which you put the most influential player at the heart of the pitch.
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Post by shanks608 on Aug 31, 2011 22:08:50 GMT 8
hey guys.. here's my possible line-up with the under 23 squad. R. Muller J. Barbaso - J. Van de Bossche - De Jong - D. Basa Islam Ahmed - J. Rochlitz - Manny Ott - S Greatwich M. Hartmann - Neil Patrick Ignacio
Sub- (Gk) Pascual, Hinrichsen, Drinkuth, Joshua Beloya, Tuason, Oj Porteria
These guys have been training with the U23 before the the Indonesia pre season matches were cancelled. High hopes for the U23 squad.
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Post by atlienace on Aug 31, 2011 22:22:28 GMT 8
... May I remind you that they are still prospects, so don't blame me for putting them here. ... It's all in good fun. It's just an open discussion since there's not much action regarding the national team right now. That's part of the reason why I wanted to talk about it and to get familiar with any prospective team as a whole instead of the individual prospect.
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Post by shanks608 on Aug 31, 2011 22:30:30 GMT 8
Here's my Dream Line-up irregardless of Eligibility.. just for fun..=)
Etheridge S. Schrock - J. Lucena - A. Borromeo - D. Cagara J. Younghusband - D. Alaba - P. Mulders A. Guirado P. Younghusband - J. De Guzman
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Post by Wiking on Sept 4, 2011 13:15:43 GMT 8
Our Azkals at full strenght will have: Filipino- Icelander; Danish- Filipino; Dutch- Filipinos; Spanish- Filipinos; Filipino- Americans; our locals; English- Filipinos; German- Filipinos, not to mention some Swedish, French, Chinese-Filipino Fil- American and Italian- Filipinos who just might or are currently trying out for the team. Its not hard to imagine how they communicate in a huddle. I saw this video. Neil talking to Lucena with Chieffy translating and Mulders standing around looking... use your imagination...
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Post by stellarboy on Jan 1, 2012 17:44:56 GMT 8
Happy New Year!I bounced back this thread to review our Dream Team that Coach Weiss wants to implement for the national team. Now that Aly B is injured and is more than doubtful to play for the AFC Challenge Cup finals in March, the "U-17 coach" will be unable to field his "full-strength" team, as we all know El Capitan Aly is the heart, bedrock, cornerstone, salt-and-light of the defense line. I'm quite doubtful for Angel Guirado's older brother Juan Luis, as I think if ever he comes by before the friendly match with Malaysia on 29 February, he will have at least 4-5 weeks of adjusting with the system. But take note, a lot of our new recruits had so little time to adjust to the environment of the whole team, yet manage to debut successfully, as in the case of Nate Burkey and Stephan Schrock.
So, let's look back on the Weiss "Dream Team" again: As we lose Aly B due to injury, the coaching staff has made drastic attempts to adjust the defense. During the friendly with LA Galaxy, Sabio and Del Rosario was utilized at CB which made unappealing results. Also, with the difficulty of having either Etheridge or Müller for the GK position during the tourney, the team will have to depend on Sacapaño and Pascual as the last resort. This will put a question mark on their athleticism and focus. This will need serious re-thinking, guys. I bet you all for this.
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Post by fadzki on Jan 1, 2012 21:04:35 GMT 8
Did Coach Wiess really put Ott on the RB position on his dream team over the much experienced and a natural Right back in Ray Jonsson...
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Post by buddha on Jan 2, 2012 7:26:48 GMT 8
We're doing this exercise for the sake of argumentation, right? We don't really think the coaching staff of the national team need our advice, do we? But I'm sure you know that already so for the sake of argumentation let me dive into the mix...
I hope we're not judging Sabio and Del Rosario based on this one game against a team that is light years away from us in tactical and technical ability. Oh, we are? Wouldn't it be fair to judge them if they played a few more games?
If a key player like Borromeo is out and you don't have any decent replacement your other option would be to try other tactically tricks. (Smoke and mirrors stuff such as using one or two anchormen). We can't afford to be hung up on one man.
Why are we fixated on a flat back four? Is 4.4.2 really our only option? We are a team overflowing with midfielders... use that!
I wouldn't question their athleticism or their focus. Maybe we could have used terms such as "experience" or "command of area?" Goalkeeping at a higher level goes beyond athleticism. (Why do you think goalkeepers peak in their mid to late 30's when normal athletic abilities actually deteriorate at this age?) It's experience and the ability to read the game that counts.
As for "focus" that could mean many things right? If you mean the ability to keep on their toes for the whole 90+ minutes the most commonly used term for this would be concentration. But if you used focus to mean their determination to succeed then I believe Sacapano and Pascual are as determined to succeed as Neil.
Finally, it's interesting to look back on what happened when Barcelona was having a centerback crises last year. Pep Guardiola used Mascherano as a centerback. That's Masherano for crying out loud! What people didn't realize was that although Mascherano was standing in the centerback position Guardiola gave Mascherano freedom to interpret that position in the context of him being a midfielder. There were lapses as expected but it wasn't a disaster and all in all Mascherano did very well. Sometimes it has to do with the trust a coach has in his player. After all, it is the coach who is in constant contact with his players.
Cheers!
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Post by Wiking on Jan 2, 2012 9:02:53 GMT 8
Did Coach Wiess really put Ott on the RB position on his dream team over the much experienced and a natural Right back in Ray Jonsson... I believe that it's another of that "coach's" habit of putting players that he perceives as better athletically (or, overall more skillful) in an unnatural position rather than letting a "natural" position player that he deems not as polished/less skillful. I believe Anton del Rosario would be better than Ott at the RB position. He might be older, overall less skillful maybe slower but he is definitely stronger, has a defenders aggressive demeanor is a natural at RB and lets look at his teams results in 2010 and 2011 when del Rosario played. It is clear, not to play him there and have a converted midfielder is another of the U17 coaches "crackpot" tactical moves. Lets all remember the games when he had a midfielder(Hinrichsen) and a forward/mid(Drinkuth) at RB and LB in the SEAG over Leonora, Basa and Fernandez; Matt Hartmann(midfielder) at CB, de Jong(CM/DM) at CB. Result: a debacle. The clown brought only 5 defenders in the tourney and used only 2(!) and the 3rd subbed in and out repeatedly! And he blames it on only 2 months of training?! No wonder they got this moron out of Germany!(sorry Wiking rant) Yes, I understand it would work sometimes but there are better alternatives. If he doesn't trust del Rosario at least try a real defender as replacement: Carli de Murga. Why are we fixated on a flat back four? Is 4.4.2 really our only option? We are a team overflowing with midfielders... use that! buddha, Since we are a team with a great selection of mids as you've pointed out, I was wondering if a 4-2-3-1 would be a better alternative? You are a coach and know the intricacies of these formations so I ask. Can you tell me/us more about this particular formation as it seems to me both a defensive and offensive formation depending on a coaches desired posture?
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Post by buddha on Jan 3, 2012 11:43:23 GMT 8
@wiking Ok, this is going to digress from the topic but I'll try to keep it brief. ---- FOREPLAY: 4-4-2 vs. 4-3-3 The question of formations is all about exploiting space. Note that the field is divided into "thirds": the defensive 3rd, the middle 3rd, and the attacking 3rd. In the past the question was on how to fully cover all the spaces on these "thirds." The answer was the 4-4-2. While this formation was excellent in covering most of the spaces on the pitch it also tends to be quite rigid. The 4-2-3-1 on the other hand was designed to exploit the spaces between the "thirds" with the hope of being more fluid and unpredictable. It is especially focused on exploiting the space between the defense and midfield known as "the hole." This "hole" has traditionally been the territory of the creative attacker (an enganche, if you will). ---- STRIPPING THE 4-2-3-1The 4-2-3-1 is just a 4-3-3 with her party dress on. Let's take it off, shall we? By withdrawing your two center midfielders deep and sitting them in front of your defense and pushing another center midfielder higher up the pitch you've opened a genie's bottle: These two deep midfielders are now occupying "the hole" in your defensive third and your high playing midfielder is now occupying "the hole" in your attacking third. Thus, you've filled two holes in one thrust! *snicker, snicker!*---- THE DOUBLE PIVOT: Defensive or Attacking? These two deep playing midfielders are known as "double pivots" simply because the team plays around them. They become the heartbeat of the team. Now here's where it gets interesting. One option is to have a traditional playmaker (enganche) high up the field supported by two hardworking, ball winning "double pivots." Players such as Javier Mascherano, Joey Barton, or Claude Makelele would fit into these roles. More brawn than brains, this approach makes the "double pivot" in a 4-2-3-1 assume a defensive stance. The next option is to put creative players in the "double pivot" roles thus becoming deep-seated playmakers (creative players who remain deep even when their team is on attack). Xabi Alonso and Andrea Pirlo are excellent examples that come to mind. A "double pivot" used this way takes on a unique attacking flavor because the build up of the play starts slowly from deep within your own defensive 3rd. ---- KAMA SUTRA: What's the best position? Just like sex, in football you won't find an ultimate mindblowing works-everytime position. While you've got to work with the players available at your disposal it's important to note that all coaches have preferred formations. If a medical doctor is allowed, nay, encouraged to specialize, the same can be said with coaches. Some coaches favor a particular formation simply because it will suit their personality & temperament, their philosophy on how the game should be played, or their preference for a type of player. They will use and master their formation of choice over the course of their career until they become experts at tweaking it in response to changing situations rather than completely changing the set-up. It is easier to manage a club team than managing a national team: 1. you deal with your players on a daily basis, 2. you get to buy players that fit into YOUR preferred position. If a player doesn't fit in you can just sell him and move on! It's much harder managing a national team because the players available to you at this level might NOT fit into your preferred formation. Thus, you are left with basically three options: 1. Change the formation to fit the qualities of your players which will ultimately (a) lessen your chances of success because it will be a formation you haven't specialized in and (b) run the risk of upsetting players by playing them in positions they're not familiar with, 2. Or you can go back to 4-4-2 as it's so basic everyone is sure to understand their simplistic roles (what McMenemy did), 3. Or... we can go ask Weiss how he does it. ---- PASS THE WIPES Coming to the end of this... anoraking... has been most satisfying. (Am I going to get banned for this moderator?)
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Post by Wiking on Jan 3, 2012 13:36:04 GMT 8
Thanks Buddha! I've been reading about this formation ever since(I think it was you) someone posted an SI.com article about it a few months ago. I've also seen it used by Fulham a few times. Once again you've given a truly clear and concise explanation about something of interest to me and maybe to others. To add: I think if we wanted to play defensive, we've got the personnel to play the "double pivot/with defensive posture" correct? But yes, it also seems to me 'time' is needed to play this formation well. Something most NT isn't privy too, like you mentioned. I learned a lot, gracias! Admin, mods How about splitting up the post above to it's own thread? Seems to me it would be a valuable addition to our website?Ok so we won't be too far out of topic, my dream team: probable point of contention:1)Ray Jonsson at DM. Why mid? Because he is a midfielder with Grindavik, has enough speed, is defensive minded. He is reliable and most importantly, he has played with Aly B, del Rosario and C. Greatwich so has a pretty good understanding of their tendencies and capabilities. 2)Angel as reserve for either James Yh and Mulders. Why? To we who have been following Angel, we know he cannot play the whole 90' because of his nagging injuries(or general fitness?), he'll be better used as a '6th man' to coin a basketball term. 3)Phil and James. Would you want to break up this partnership? 4) Chris Greatwich over de Jong and Ott. Veteran whos contribution to the team is well documented. Super subs Ott and de Jong. If only we can find out Juan Luis Guirados quality soon. It's alway good to have options on defense. Ok, now we're not OT Buddha... ;D
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Post by buddha on Jan 3, 2012 15:06:19 GMT 8
Thanks Wiking, but writing all that was not as easy as it looks. I've had the luxury of spending half the morning writing and rewriting as I'm at home recovering from the flu. Hehehe!
On your points of contention 1. You're right, Jonsson might actually make a good DM. I've always liked his energy, attitude, and positioning sense. I think he'll fit right in as a DM. 2. Angel hasn't impressed me much. His touch on the ball is heavy and he reminds me more of a bull than a matador. 3. I like the fact that you kept Phil & James together. They do have a very good partnership and they always seem to give their all. Mustn't break up that chemistry unless one of them is underperforming terribly. 4. I'm a bit doubtful of Greatwich at DM. Chris is a typical box-to-box midfielder and I sense he wouldn't have the patience and discipline to keep sitting deep as you'll always find him running up to get a shot at goal. Schrock might be a better choice if you can get Carli de Murga at rightback. One thing that I love about Schrock aside from the quality of his first touch is that he is so solid on the ball, has great vision, and a wide range of passes. And tattoos.
I think de Murga is a decent wingback. Quite good actually. He just looks so tame. He'll need tattoos to look badass.
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Post by stellarboy on Feb 27, 2012 11:52:53 GMT 8
Here is the winning entry for the United Football League XI Share Contest on Facebook, which surprisingly contains current (and former, in case of Mercado) National Team players. Here is the poster's description of the formation: " With Araneta's position in Philippine Air Force, he is comfortable inside the Penalty area allowing to score easily while Phil YH's attacking position can receive a goal kick from the opponent's side of the field then score directly. Caligdong's Left boot will help him make a high cross to James YH or score directly in the left wing while James YH can recive a cross from Caligdong to score with a header or pass to the two strikers. Bahadoran and Guirado's center midefield play can recieve big long passes from defenders in order to gain possesion and helps in defense and offense. Juan Luis Guirado's international experience against Ausies and Uzbekies can gain strength against opponent also his long passes can be go directly easily to the attacking or midfield play. Del Rosario and Borromeo's leadership experience from international experience can help them to interact from other players like Roel Gener. And lastly Mercado's ability to give a long pass ahead to the attacking players and mostly interacted players (Chieffy/Araneta) can understand his plan about offense and defense of the opponent." Your thoughts on this one, guys?
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