|
Post by slayermoonlight on Nov 5, 2011 1:58:27 GMT 8
I haven't watched the whole match yet but from the replay highlights, our defense in the 2nd half is a disaster.
As I mentioned last time in the Azkal vs Singapore thread, I'm a firm believer that our formations must be tailor-fit with each player's natural (and comfortable) position. In short: OPTIMAL position. Matt Hartmann is primarily a midfielder. Yes he can play as a CB (minus the own goal) but still he is a midfielder. The next critical thing which is the Waterloo of our current coach is making adjustments.
[fantasy manager mode]
Formation: Classic 4-4-2
For a well-prepared and revenge-seeking Vietnamese team, I would employ a defensive formation a.k.a fanboi Vimjonk's Macca formation (peace bro hehehehe):
Defense: Muller (GK), Leonora (LB) Basa (CB) Van Bossche (CB) de Murga (RB)
Muller as keeper is self-explanatory. Carli and Leonora has proven there worth as an RB and LB respectively during LTC so you can't go wrong with them. Off-nights/off-games are part of a player's game but what the heck are subs for? If Leonora is "inaalat" then perhaps Raymark Fernandez (or Jerry Barbaso yun nga lang di sya kasali) could have stepped in and assumed responsibility. Basa and Van Bossche are natural center backs. Moreover, Basa has already played during the Suzuki Cup 2010 and if I'm not mistaken he played against Singapore or Vietnam or both and with that I believe he'll never get jittery playing against U-23 kids.
Midfield: Christaens (LM), Ott (CM), de Jong (CM), Matt Hartmann (RM)
I wanna entrust the center midfield to my "veterans" hence it'll be Ott and JDJ. Christaens in LM is another LTC discovery so nuff said. As for Matt Hartmann in RM, im not really sure. But technically, his naturally a midfielder so he should play in midfield. Now if I notice that he's sluggish and does not have the stamina to push that right flank then I'll replace him in the 2nd hlaf with either Jake Morallo or with the fancy-dribbling kid OJ Porteira. Patrick Hinrichsen is also another option. Afterall, we have a lot of midfielders.
Offense: Beloya (ST) Valmayor (ST)
We don't have to elaborate the roles of these guys since we'll be playing on a defensive mindset. Well, at least they'll just lurk on Vietnam's defensive line waiting for opportunities to beat offside traps.
Substitutes: Hinrichsen, Angeles, Mark Hartmann
Hinrichsen and Angeles will serve as utility midfield subs for either give Christaens a rest, sub de Jong the moment he gets yellow-carded (I'll assume that Vietnam's coach is aware of de Jong's temperament) or any midfield who might get injured. Meanwhile, Mark Hartmann can replace any tired strikers or if ever we get the score is in our favor and we're down to the last 15 minutes, I'll shift to 4-5-1 and go park bus mode by subbing out 1 striker and field Marky as an Attacking Midfielder. Still an attacker but gives him an option to overcrowd the midfield. (he can also chase those Viets all the way down with our back-4 if he wish tutal mahilig naman sya tumakbo kung saan-saan as long he can harrass those attackers).
[/fantasy manager mode]
|
|
|
Post by jpmanahan on Nov 5, 2011 5:56:04 GMT 8
I'll tinker with the slayermoonlight idea and have it more of a 4-5-1 rather than the classic 4-4-2. Beloya / Marky H serves as facilitator to Jinggoy or OJay or even handle the attack.
I grasp at straws as to why a natural CB like David Basa was not used in this match.
|
|
|
Post by vimjonk on Nov 5, 2011 6:12:18 GMT 8
@mr. Moonlight: i'm with you there but for me 4-4-2 is still not enough. I'd rather go with 5-1-3-1 and adjust accordingly depending upon which sides attacks are coming from. For those saying they were parking the bus in the second half, i would confidently say that you don't know what park the bus means. LOL... If they were parking the bus, then why the hell did: * they are playing offside traps * the backline is way up the pitch * Leonora continues to climb upward and most of the time get stranded when they lost the ball * lots of through-ball gets thru * very loose marking
|
|
|
Post by azkalrules on Nov 5, 2011 6:32:18 GMT 8
Also agree with you guys. just to add on .... have seen Joshua alot of times and he has good vision specially inside the box and tends to overpass that is why they dominated the U23 with Dolino cause Aldrin is fast and good in getting position. Beloya is better to be behind Valmayor .....
|
|
bigfoot
UF Scout
European Scout
Posts: 142
|
Post by bigfoot on Nov 5, 2011 6:50:20 GMT 8
are we all talking about the U23 team here ? i don't know about your football knowledge or experience, friends, but U23 means this is still a team that is building up and most of our players are not even U21 !! IF YOU EXPECT MIRACLES, FRIENDS, GO TO LOURDES ; but please be a bit realistic . we are talking about young players , most of them less than 20 ; they can't be all of them like messi or ronaldo . if they were they would not be here but in barcelona or manchester or bayern ; judge them 2 years from now and give them the possibilities and THE SUPPORT to grow . when looking at this forum i sometimes have the feeling that we expect more than what we really can, try to remember yourself as a very young child: before you could run you had to learn how to walk. a year ago this forum did not even exist and now everybody is the resident expert . it's nice to see everybody busy about preparation time and all that, but again be realistic : are you going to pay for all this we have our son staying there since beginning of september, angelo verheye and jeffrey christiaens and some other ones likewise ; i did not see any appriciation for that here . i did not hear anybody here asking them how they do it, what about their school or job or club ? sometimes they are even treated as if they are not of the right "blood" ( azkals being stray dogs it's only natural they have no pure blood, as do most of the filipino's ). a little respect and appreciation would be more in place for their efforts ; but no : first game they play and it goes a bit wrong and they loose and the shooting starts ; i was today in the hotel and it was very quiet; the resting-afternoon was very well used . our players were really tired, they met a better and more expirienced team and had a good first 60 minutes . they were not top but the vietnamese were panicking . they did their best and of course they made mistakes, but at least they tried and give what they could ; they were on the field and also know what happened and they tried their best . so give them the support they deserve, and even if they did not : you are supposed to be a "supporter" that is in good and especially bad days . i have been following our son and also other youth teams since years and it's only normal that it happens that things go wrong , even the pro's have that and make huge mistakes (evidence is on TV everyday, did you see the mistake of the greek keeper yesterday ?) . the trainer will tell them what went wrong, what could be better and was good and hope that they learn from it ; of course if the same things and mistakes keep on occuring again and again it means that we were wrong, never the players, they always to their best . anyway just have fun, it's only a game and not a state affair or a mather of life and death, there are more important things in life .
|
|
|
Post by shanks608 on Nov 5, 2011 8:40:52 GMT 8
I agree with you Bigfoot! most of us were expecting too much from the boys that they forgot that most of them were still young and pretty much lacks the experience.. we crucify them for making those mistakes as if they were professional footballers playing for those 1st division leagues. I mean, i know everyone wants to win, who doesn't? but we saw that the boys really gave it all, they were just beaten by a better team, no shame on that. most of us act like football managers here... we want these kind of players, these kind of formation, who would play this and that.. i mean i understand that because this is a football forum after all and a lot are knowledgeable about football because most of us are watching a lot of EPL or Bundesliga games.. but at the end of the day, we are just spectators.. we weren't there when the boys were practicing.. we didn't see who was playing well and who flopped.. all of us want our players to perform well but these kids are not neymar or eden hazard or dzeko who can do the things that we DREAM the team would do. If the Philippines becomes a football powerhouse where we produce a lot of talented kids that would someday become top notch players in the Top Leagues. then that would be the day that we would have the right to be upset and criticize them for not playing well for the flag... but for now let's just enjoy the games, give the boys some slack and support them win or lose.. they are still young.. we can point out their weaknesses, lapses in their plays but lets not crucify them for losing a match.. they are the ones playing for the country, not us.. mabuhay ang Pilipinas! LOL!
by they way bigfoot, Jacques played well during the match I hope he continues to play well.. can you send my regards to the team? i know the boys are very eager to play well and win in the upcoming matches. Best of Luck to the team!!
|
|
|
Post by jpesarza on Nov 5, 2011 8:46:22 GMT 8
are we all talking about the U23 team here ? i don't know about your football knowledge or experience, friends, but U23 means this is still a team that is building up and most of our players are not even U21 !! IF YOU EXPECT MIRACLES, FRIENDS, GO TO LOURDES ; but please be a bit realistic . we are talking about young players , most of them less than 20 ; they can't be all of them like messi or ronaldo . if they were they would not be here but in barcelona or manchester or bayern ; judge them 2 years from now and give them the possibilities and THE SUPPORT to grow . when looking at this forum i sometimes have the feeling that we expect more than what we really can, try to remember yourself as a very young child: before you could run you had to learn how to walk. a year ago this forum did not even exist and now everybody is the resident expert . it's nice to see everybody busy about preparation time and all that, but again be realistic : are you going to pay for all this we have our son staying there since beginning of september, angelo verheye and jeffrey christiaens and some other ones likewise ; i did not see any appriciation for that here . i did not hear anybody here asking them how they do it, what about their school or job or club ? sometimes they are even treated as if they are not of the right "blood" ( azkals being stray dogs it's only natural they have no pure blood, as do most of the filipino's ). a little respect and appreciation would be more in place for their efforts ; but no : first game they play and it goes a bit wrong and they loose and the shooting starts ; i was today in the hotel and it was very quiet; the resting-afternoon was very well used . our players were really tired, they met a better and more expirienced team and had a good first 60 minutes . they were not top but the vietnamese were panicking . they did their best and of course they made mistakes, but at least they tried and give what they could ; they were on the field and also know what happened and they tried their best . so give them the support they deserve, and even if they did not : you are supposed to be a "supporter" that is in good and especially bad days . i have been following our son and also other youth teams since years and it's only normal that it happens that things go wrong , even the pro's have that and make huge mistakes (evidence is on TV everyday, did you see the mistake of the greek keeper yesterday ?) . the trainer will tell them what went wrong, what could be better and was good and hope that they learn from it ; of course if the same things and mistakes keep on occuring again and again it means that we were wrong, never the players, they always to their best . anyway just have fun, it's only a game and not a state affair or a mather of life and death, there are more important things in life . True. Sometimes it makes wonder, if it's really a Filipino's natural way of showing support: a. to lash out at our own athletes when they make mistakes and b. to celebrate with them when they made splendid representation of the sport (knowing they're the ones exerting effort for flag the and country). Cuz believe me, i am surrounded with these kind of people. And i can only do so much to make them understand. It's irritating cuz these people just don't know how to give the credit where the credit is due. Oh well, life as we know it -- COMPLICATED. smh.
|
|
|
Post by Wiking on Nov 5, 2011 8:59:16 GMT 8
I'll talk about a different matter,
First off, why wasn't Barbaso included in this roster? I think we can safely say he is arguably the best outside fullback in this bunch. Was in disciplinary or just coaches choice or age? We have Basa, he has started in bigger games than this, I've seen him playing LB, so why was he not subbed in when NL was already struggling. The coach has been good/lucky with putting players in a position where they are new too(RJonsson at RB, OP at CB, Matt at LB) but it seem to have bit him in the butt this time.
Although I am still a minimal supporter of coach Weiss(he's free and we have no choice), I cannot understand why he refuses to pull someone early. Case in point the Vietnamese team coach in the beginning of the second half, which we can agree was a certain turning point for that team. I will not blame the players here, responsibility lies in the coach to formulate a game plan and a contingency plan too. Neckson L played his ass off, adjustments by the coach should've been done as soon as he saw(what we all saw) that Vietnam decided to pressure his side. But hindsight is 20/20. I'll root for my boys and watch them destroy the rest of the opponents.
|
|
|
Post by sheajane80 on Nov 5, 2011 9:02:14 GMT 8
so what kung mga bata lang mga yun? so what kung may mga u21 u19 sa team? aren't the other teams also composed of such?
geez there wasn't even any need for miracles, us leading after the first half was no miracle. it was the result of good defending sa 1st half as you can just see how frustrated the viet's players and their coach were.
it was the job of the coaching staff to do the necessary adjustments in 2nd half. the moment they saw vietnam was exploiting that hole in our defense,they should have subbed him already because he was already too tired.
if a person does the same things and mistakes over and over again means it's not his fault? ngek.
back @topic, kahit pa if they are now going to face the so called minnows 5 4 1 or kahit 5 3 2. gauge them muna. never under-estimate minnows.azkals nga natalo sa isang game against MONGOLIA THE MINNOW dba? pag nakita na di ganun kagaling atake nila, by that time pwede na siguro mag change to a more attacking formation.
|
|
|
Post by slayermoonlight on Nov 5, 2011 10:09:28 GMT 8
@ bigfoot - All of us here knows there still young and most of them are newbies and we are a here are genuine Azkals supports and not bandwagoners. There's no issue here with the players. It's the coach who's discussed upon.
@ shanks608 - please point out where did I personally lashed out a player in my previous post? we are not crucifying the players here. I don't blame players committing mistakes i.e. Matt Hartmann's own goal. What I do criticized is why a natural midfielder which is supposed to be a midfield is fielded by the coach as a centerback which is obviously not an optimal position. At least in my post, despite theoretical, I'm recognizing every players weakness and strength. And at least in my post, I put emphasis on trusting substitutes. Why do I bother posting acting like a football manager wannabee instead of just shutting up and just sit and watch? It's because I enjoy the game. I enjoy giving constructive criticism coz you dont know maybe Mr. Palami or Mr. Weiss is reading this forum at least they can try experimenting the suggestions laid out here during there practice game.
@jpeserza - Fortunately, not all Filipino are like that. Not all Filipinos personally attack the players for losing the game. Not all Filipino have crab metality. Not all posters here are bandwagoners (I've always followed the development of the Azkals since Pinoysoccer.com circa 2007 at that them when nobody give a damn about Philippine football and the Azkals are still used to get beating by at least 5 goals).
Life is not really as complicated as you think. It's basically Survival of the Fittest. We can see what life is in football match: the most prepared team will dominate over the less prepared team. The "stronger" coach gobbles up the "weaker" coach. [Predator coach to Prey coach: "Aha you don't know how to make 2nd-half adjustments eh. ROAR!!! *ngrarp* *chew..chew..chew* *burp*"]
|
|
|
Post by tabokanon on Nov 5, 2011 10:16:20 GMT 8
pano naging park the bus yun? when they still have the intent to attack. paano ba naging intent to attack yon eh,.,.,pinabibigay lang nila ang bola sa kalaban,.,.,long balls ng long balls.,.,eh wala namang kataotao.
|
|
|
Post by Wiking on Nov 5, 2011 10:17:43 GMT 8
if a person does the same things and mistakes over and over again means it's not his fault? ngek. jane, I'd agree with your statement if you meant the coach. You cannot blame a player if he cannot handle his assignment. The coach is the facilitator of the team not the player.
|
|
|
Post by rfm on Nov 5, 2011 10:51:34 GMT 8
I hate long balls its less assurance in advanving position on our half. Imagine this, you bent it long going to your striker or your attacking midfilder what do you expect, he will be marked and chances is 1playrr against 2 defenders. Our defensive line having hard effort to take back position and just give the ball away for a long ball. its a waste effort. seen azkals did it here against singapore and tell you, you expect too much from our strikers and forwards to out muscle the centerbacks which they were trained not too. Better to employ patient passing like spanish style to moving as a group forward to our offensive halfline. Move as a unit to have greater number of feet to pass to and create chances.
|
|
|
Post by sheajane80 on Nov 5, 2011 11:21:38 GMT 8
pano naging park the bus yun? when they still have the intent to attack. paano ba naging intent to attack yon eh,.,.,pinabibigay lang nila ang bola sa kalaban,.,.,long balls ng long balls.,.,eh wala namang kataotao. lols ayusin mo sagot mo ha cos you're verging close to accusing the boys of throwing the game away. those long balls were clearly attempts to make the forward player make the run for it. the problem with long balls has always been the accuracy. meaning not too long in order for it to be too far away that the opponent's gk gets to the ball first because obviously the ball is moving towards his direction than the intended receiver nor too short that a defender gets it instead of the intend receiver. tatalak ka pa eh when vimjonk's reply regarding you saying they weren't parking the bus in the 2nd half is sufficient enough to prove you were wrong. parking the bicycle pwede pa, pero parking the bus?what bus?baka colorum kamo yung bus na yun ha? THEY WEREN'T PARKING THE BUS IN THE 2ND HALF! period. peryod.tuldok.
|
|
|
Post by sheajane80 on Nov 5, 2011 11:28:55 GMT 8
if a person does the same things and mistakes over and over again means it's not his fault? ngek. jane, I'd agree with your statement if you meant the coach. You cannot blame a player if he cannot handle his assignment. The coach is the facilitator of the team not the player. no that reply was just this for that. no reading behind the lines. bale napatanong lang ako putting experiences in real life into perspective na kung nagkamali ang isang tao at pa ulit2x niya pa ring ginagawa yun paano naging hindi niya kamalian yun? ganun lang po. and i do understand your statement regarding the coach per se when combined to my post and his post. alam natin what he meant by those boy's mistakes as not being their's. that's where the coach's fault comes in. di ko lang sinabi sa reply kong yun kasi i wanted him to say it out direct. no need to be cryptic about it because there's nothing wrong nor nothing to be afraid of to say na mali ang coach lalo na pag may basehan.
|
|