bigfoot
UF Scout
European Scout
Posts: 142
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Post by bigfoot on Nov 7, 2011 23:28:23 GMT 8
this was a big improvement on the previous game, we gave away only a few chances, muller did not have to do the same amount of work . bounced back after the 2-1 and gave it a fight . don't know if you watched the game , but the "commedia dell'arte" of the timores players was up to professional standards ; they started falling down once they had the lead and kept on doing it the complete second half, 5 min extra time was to short for all this timewinning . keeper never got a warning for his slow play, and then of course you see frustration , manny got yellow carded when he got enough of it . the progress was there, but honestly i feel not satisfied : i miss sharpness in the players, it was better second half but still : not enough going to meet the ball, not enough midfielders or attackers (specially first half) who make themselves available to receive a pass . it was frustrating that they had to play the ball in the back from one to another cause there was no passing possibility . slayermoonlight you said "Now most of us saying that the team lacks cohesion and teamwork because the Fil-Fors just joined at the last minute." this happens with all nationale teams, their players play mostly in different countries and come together only for a short time before they play interlands . but a lot of players in those selections made it up from national youth-selections and know each other since years . also they use the same playingstyle as the first teams so the gap when making the step up is not so big . our players have now everyday one trainingsession, seems there are no fields available for more . if you want to bring them together as a well oiled machine why waste the time and the chance ; even if this is not going to make a difference now, it will help for the future . trainings don't have to be always on the fysical level, you can have quiet trainings where standard situations, like freekicks and corners ,are exercised ; heared that they did not get the fields by the organisation, but if you go around there are enough other good fields here . why not ask for the help of the local philippine community ? i know firsthanded that they know the way and have a good alternative .
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Post by kelvinreambonanza on Nov 7, 2011 23:50:21 GMT 8
Match was lopsided in favor of Timor Leste.
The game became exciting when the Hartmanns leave the pitch.
Major consolation is that its the first time I saw my nephews aged 6,8,10 watch a football game, they really enjoyed it, but to my surprise they were rooting for Timor Leste. And of course shouting SHOOT!
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Post by slayermoonlight on Nov 7, 2011 23:55:03 GMT 8
this was a big improvement on the previous game, we gave away only a few chances, muller did not have to do the same amount of work . bounced back after the 2-1 and gave it a fight . don't know if you watched the game , but the "commedia dell'arte" of the timores players was up to professional standards ; they started falling down once they had the lead and kept on doing it the complete second half, 5 min extra time was to short for all this timewinning . keeper never got a warning for his slow play, and then of course you see frustration , manny got yellow carded when he got enough of it . the progress was there, but honestly i feel not satisfied : i miss sharpness in the players, it was better second half but still : not enough going to meet the ball, not enough midfielders or attackers (specially first half) who make themselves available to receive a pass . it was frustrating that they had to play the ball in the back from one to another cause there was no passing possibility . slayermoonlight you said "Now most of us saying that the team lacks cohesion and teamwork because the Fil-Fors just joined at the last minute." this happens with all nationale teams, their players play mostly in different countries and come together only for a short time before they play interlands . but a lot of players in those selections made it up from national youth-selections and know each other since years . also they use the same playingstyle as the first teams so the gap when making the step up is not so big . our players have now everyday one trainingsession, seems there are no fields available for more . if you want to bring them together as a well oiled machine why waste the time and the chance ; even if this is not going to make a difference now, it will help for the future . trainings don't have to be always on the fysical level, you can have quiet trainings where standard situations, like freekicks and corners ,are exercised ; heared that they did not get the fields by the organisation, but if you go around there are enough other good fields here . why not ask for the help of the local philippine community ? i know firsthanded that they know the way and have a good alternative . Hello bigfoot. We're all proud of JVB. I believe we will become the next of CB that will eventually replace our aging Back Four. By the way, thanks for your insight. Just to be clear, here my whole statement: "Now most of us saying that the team lacks cohesion and teamwork because the Fil-Fors just joined at the last minute. This is a known football fact that the Philippines will be relying on our Fil-For contigent. This is both our strength and weakness. To offset the weakness (Fil-Fors not having enough time to practice with others) the widely accepted solution is to field them in the same postion they play for in their respective international clubs. Meanwhile, the mainstays players should be the ones practicing playing together. In that way, the Fil-Fors that will supplement specific positions will only be requiring minor adjustments when playing against the mainstays." So I think we somewhat agree in most part.
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Post by liverBLOODYREDpool on Nov 8, 2011 0:11:02 GMT 8
to admin:
this is supposed to be a football forum and any post that relates to football issue being discussed, regardless if they are against your opinion or the opinions of people behind this forum, should be respected.
bakit merong pananakot? and how do you qualify a post that is garbage? dahil lang paulit-ulit yung pinopoint ng poster, candidate na for being banned? that's just awful.
you know, people won't repeat themselves over and over again if we're seeing that the issues being raised have been addressed already. obviously, they are not... hence, the repetition.
nakakalungkot lang na maraming balat-sibuyas sa atin sa pagwawasto ng mali. we should all understand that gold needs to go thru fire in order to be purified and a team is only as good as it's leader. nakikita naman natin na yung players, they all have the skills, the talent and the passion to play football for the country's pride. kaya nga sila nakuha for U23 team. what most of us are pointing out here is maybe, just maybe, it's already high time to change the coach coz the same issues we're facing with the senior azkals have been evidently the same as what we're seeing now with the junior azkals in the ongoing SEA games football competition. kahit mag assign na lang ng ibang coach sa U23, wag na lang yung current coach dahil its very obvious, hindi maganda ang results. there's no need for someone to be a football coach or a great footballer to discern this. just someone who understands the game, madaling makikita kung ano diperensya why we are not getting quality wins under weiss' tutelage.
again, ok ako sa long-term plan with weiss as traditional grass roots program is still the best to train future football players. but we have short-term and immediate goals. if he's not fit to manage these goals, sana kumuha naman tayo ng makakatulong talaga sa teams natin. wag naman sana tayong magkasya sa libre na hindi naman swak sa pangangailangan natin. para lang yang gamot eh. maski libre pa pero di naman makakagaling sa sakit mo, hindi mo kelangan yung inumin. di baleng mangutang ka ng pambili ng tamang gamot, wag ka lang lumala sa sakit mo at tuluyan ka ring gumaling.
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Post by liverBLOODYREDpool on Nov 8, 2011 0:36:08 GMT 8
Timor Leste really played well today.. they got bigger players and they always get the upper hand in headers and SPEED!! they always outrun us.. and our passes are very predictable. but skill wise, individually, i think our boys have the advantage. they played a little better on the second half.. Christaens and Porteria have great dribbling skills, and JDJ too. I'm not trying to bring down any players but after 2 matches. I think Matthew Hartmann is our weak link in the Back 4.. IMO i think he's too slow to be placed at CB.. I think it would work if Christaens would be placed at LB and Leonora moving to CB.. he can overlap with the ML in counter attacks.. we should really plug that hole if we want to win.. Good effort by the boys but it was just not that good enough. that strike from Valmayor was almost a screamer.. sayang! Mark Hartmann's skills is good his perception and positioning is good.. but i think his pace is really slow. Clarino or Beloya should take his place. just my 2 cents.. i think we could go for this line up Muller Carli -- JVB -- Leonora -- Christaens Porteria-- JDJ -- Ott -- Clarino/ Drinkuth Beloya Valmayor agree on most points. but carli is gonna be out on suspension with the laos game so we need a pure defender to replace him. i'd say use basa instead of putting in an MF or a FW in the lineup. i'm sure some of the posters here might have the same idea, too. also, we should not start with any of the hartmanns. as you pointed out above, they tend to make our game slow. notice in the latter part of 2nd half, with ott/jdj/porteria in the mid (notice, too, that christiaens was all over) and with valmayor/clarino as FWs, our play became more fluid with better, quicker passing that are on target. it was just too bad, nothing got through. that valmayor strike was just a heartbreaker. if that got in, i think the boys would have gained greater confidence on themselves. *sighs*
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Post by wenden96 on Nov 8, 2011 1:25:45 GMT 8
nice individual effort of porteria and de jong for the game.....
timor leste win, is a culmination of a good football program, the so called developmental program is working for timor leste why cant we do it......it doesnt mean that the young azkals play sucks but the timor leste team have been improve....development and training ang pumatay sa young azkals.....well damage has been done now where back to minnows.....
this is my 2 cents
1) Develop now the youths especially the u16 and u19....use the u19 program that they keep the players in one place....do it for a year or two.... 2) A right selection and support of the deserving provincial players...... 3) We could ask if possible that the fil-foriegn must stay in the country for a month prior the tournament...para wala na yung rason na jet lag at kung anu-anu... 4) development....development....development.....im not a believer that the success will came from the reinforcement though they can surely help....
Young azkals goodluck on the next match...
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Post by wenden96 on Nov 8, 2011 1:32:45 GMT 8
and btw this is a forum....my mga point na binibigay ang iba respetohin nyo......
a defeat to timor leste hah...admit it the team have a problem i dont know how deep...lunukin nyo na lang pride natin at tama na yang pagtatakip talo na nga eh.........if my memory serve me correct this is the first time that we were defeated by timor leste (correct me if im wrong)....so anu ang prob? kainaya naman ng mga team selection before bakit ngayon indi majority of the players are reinforcement pa........
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bigfoot
UF Scout
European Scout
Posts: 142
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Post by bigfoot on Nov 8, 2011 1:48:34 GMT 8
this is my 2 cents 1) Develop now the youths especially the u16 and u19....use the u19 program that they keep the players in one place....do it for a year or two.... 2) A right selection and support of the deserving provincial players...... 3) We could ask if possible that the fil-foriegn must stay in the country for a month prior the tournament...para wala na yung rason na jet lag at kung anu-anu... 4) development....development....development.....im not a believer that the success will came from the reinforcement though they can surely help.... Young azkals goodluck on the next match... good ideas but: 1) U16 / U19 : start earlier than that, also local, provincial and regional . here in indonesia children play on the street and whereever they find place. philippines ? they play basketball and even then it stops without proper training afterwards 2) keeping players available for 1-2 years, how you do that for their schools? or you want them to abandon all that for a game ?? or you have an east-german/chinese/russian approach in mind ? 3) why not try to send them abroad, ask teams if they are willing to give them a chance, it will improve their play enormously . i see local players in the team now, and hear the comments about them from the european players and i am sure they are able to do that since they are good 4) 1 month together in advance : then you should give them proper training, not as was the case now, i see some of them having problems to play in their own team when tehy go back with the form and shape they are in now after being there for 2 months 5) development ? of course this is a must, but count on some years before you ever see a result from this, even now the philippine based U16 are allready behind in development compared with their counterparts in f.i. europe , not because they lack talent, but the level of training is much higher and starts at the age of 6 . again try to select and send them out, expose them until the local based training level is up to date 6)reinforcement ? it does not mather where they come from, all countries, and i repeat ALL ,take players (even if they have to naturalise them) if they think it can be to their advantage ; you hardly hear anyone complaining about this as long as the results are there . when france became world champion they used "french - whatever", same with the germans last worldcup, even the spanish worldchampion had a brazilian in their ranks , heared a complaint there ??
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Post by cjeagle on Nov 8, 2011 2:04:24 GMT 8
The thoughts of a defeated coach with still 3 games to play: Timor Leste eliminates U-23 Azkals, 2-1 By Musong R. Castillo Philippine Daily Inquirer 9:24 pm | Monday, November 7th, 2011 27 share43 16 JAKARTA—Football, a sport that’s enjoying unprecedented popularity back home, became the first casualty for Team Philippines in the 26th Southeast Asian Games. “I want to say (that I am) deeply sorry to the wonderful fans back home,†a dejected German coach Michael Weiss said moments after his Under-23 Azkals took a 2-1 loss from Timor Leste Monday afternoon to all but bow out of their event. Diogo Santos Rangel knocked in the marginal goal just three minutes into the second half, breaking a 1-1 tie the Filipinos forged at the Lebak Bulus Stadium here. Poor defense again doomed the Azkals, who gave up a goal just 17 minutes into the match and couldn’t prevent Rangel from zigzagging his way near the penalty box to flick in the winning goal. Rangel got a feed from Murilo and dribbled his way past Patrick Hinrichsen in the right flank before scoring with his right foot which keeper Roland Muller didn’t come close to stopping. With their second straight loss after a thorough 1-3 manhandling from Vietnam last Thursday, the Filipinos now need a miracle to advance to the crossover Final Four. As things stand in Group B, Timor Leste has the lead at 2-0 with Vietnam and Myanmar tied with a win and a draw each. The Philippines next faces Myanmar and then Laos and Cambodia. Only two squads will make it to the next round and something absolutely crazy must happen in the last three games of the Timorese, the Vietnamese and Myanmar for the Philippines to advance. “It was a very bitter defeat for such a young team,†Weiss said. “This team is being prepared for (the SEAG in) 2013,†the burly coach said. “Right now, I don’t think it’s realistic for us to think of the semis. I don’t think that it was even realistic to think about it from the start (of the tournament).†Jose Elmer Porteira knotted the score in the 37th minute after converting on a right-footed strike deep in the penalty box which was set up by a brilliant cross from Patrick Hinrichsen. _____________ I guess he could no longer use the excuse of saying the players were jetlagged so he just decided to give up. With still 3 games to play, what a morale booster to the players.
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bigfoot
UF Scout
European Scout
Posts: 142
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Post by bigfoot on Nov 8, 2011 2:09:29 GMT 8
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Post by wenden96 on Nov 8, 2011 2:51:25 GMT 8
@ bigfoot 1) U16 / U19 : start earlier than that, also local, provincial and regional . here in indonesia children play on the street and whereever they find place. philippines ? they play basketball and even then it stops without proper training afterwards I agree with you to start as early as a youngster and maybe concentrate for "now" to those provinces that has a strong football history, but what i meant is the next two SEA games. this under 16 and u 19 squad is the best candidate needed for developement for the preparation of the tournament. train them in every three month send them or invite other foreign team for exposure. 2) keeping players available for 1-2 years, how you do that for their schools? or you want them to abandon all that for a game ?? or you have an east-german/chinese/russian approach in mind ? I agree that we need to use some discipline if we want to develop stronger football player, chinese sport development is mostly appreciative but with a twist. for there studies....this is only my point of view why not send it bacolod, panaad will be there training ground and dormitory. there are university in there that they can choose whatever they like however they will not join in any school as a varsity. There focus is to train in football with a foreign coach (with a complete foreign staff) they can have a friendly with this university as a practice. they will atleast train 4 to 5 times a week for 2 years ill bet they are the force to reckon with (off course all financial needs will be shoulder by the PFF school, food, allowance etc) 3) why not try to send them abroad, ask teams if they are willing to give them a chance, it will improve their play enormously . i see local players in the team now, and hear the comments about them from the european players and i am sure they are able to do that since they are good :-/sending abroad is better but financially speaking it is expensive instead you can train at least 30 to 60 personnel on my opinion on item two....you can only send only 1 team......but the option is good though what can I add is those people will do echo training to youth all over the phl after they were sent to the other country or the leader of the squad will make a report or activities report that will serve a one point lesson to be dessiminated to other coachs/teams. 4) 1 month together in advance : then you should give them proper training, not as was the case now, i see some of them having problems to play in their own team when tehy go back with the form and shape they are in now after being there for 2 months if course a proper training training with the whole team, tactically and conditioning.... 5) development ? of course this is a must, but count on some years before you ever see a result from this, even now the philippine based U16 are allready behind in development compared with their counterparts in f.i. europe , not because they lack talent, but the level of training is much higher and starts at the age of 6 . again try to select and send them out, expose them until the local based training level is up to date 8-)there are a lot of youngster that have skills in province check the palarong pambansa.....we have the talents phl needs a better system for training....if pff could educate all the coaches in provinces by sending to the international coaching schools then we have it in no time.......note some coaches in the province dont have even a class c card but still there player can whip those team who have a coach who have class c cards. again what i meant for the under 16 is for the early preparation for the next sea games... 6)reinforcement ? it does not mather where they come from, all countries, and i repeat ALL ,take players (even if they have to naturalise them) if they think it can be to their advantage ; you hardly hear anyone complaining about this as long as the results are there . when france became world champion they used "french - whatever", same with the germans last worldcup, even the spanish worldchampion had a brazilian in their ranks , heared a complaint there ?? at least there reinforcements stay on that country.....that is the big difference and if theres a call up they report for a training as early as they could......im not against with the foreign base but im not comfortable of the system of recruitment and they way report for the NT...you could see the result in the last games.....
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bigfoot
UF Scout
European Scout
Posts: 142
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Post by bigfoot on Nov 8, 2011 3:16:44 GMT 8
"at least there reinforcements stay on that country.....that is the big difference and if theres a call up they report for a training as early as they could......"
beg to differ, for instance the team i know better, the belgian national team. It has players playing in german, russian,dutch, english, portuguese , spanish competition, they are called for international games whenever they are organised. clubs are not happy with that but have to let the player go if selected for the A-team . they release them for 1 max 2 weeks, or longer if there are international tournaments like world/european cup . they don't stay in Belgium and are only released by the clubs at the last possible moment . only difference : international games are organised in europe in the same week, but we have f.i. problems for local clubs who's players are selected for their national teams in other continents, if this is an A-team they are also obliged to let them go (e.g; the African cup, sometimes 3-4 players from a team are gone) . Brazilians, argentinians and others go back to Sout America when their country needs them, this is like an international agreement with FIFA . this , however does not apply for youth-teams .
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Post by jonny on Nov 8, 2011 3:35:39 GMT 8
All the 20 Timor Leste players born on 1. Jan 1988 ? That is obviously not correct... Philippines got only 5 of the 20 players under 20 y.o
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Post by wenden96 on Nov 8, 2011 3:44:02 GMT 8
@ bigfoot^^ ok stand corrected, but they are professionals they are already good players, we are just developing and this is asia not europe....see the difference it is good to plan and dream that our players will the same as europe but this is asean before we pattern ourself to europe we need to align ourself first to our asean neighbors....... if it is not applicable to the youth why still we rely on them???yes, they are good way good but as a team stand point there skills will have a hard time to gel........for example I thought after the under 23 tourney I thought the team will be build up for the training, but no not until last month.....if that guys was trained i bet we can excel plus the or even our reinforcement came in late...... frankly im hoped that the plan of the PFF after under 23 would pushed through at that time but my hoped is in vain that is why i am hesitant to this team's success this asean games...
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Post by feindouno on Nov 8, 2011 5:47:55 GMT 8
Why are we still relying on foreign-based players at U-23? It's because at this point, the skill level of a jet-lagged, uncohesive team made mostly of foreign-based lads is still higher than one made up of locals. It is what it is, sad but true. We are that far behind.
And, to make foreign-based reinforcements stay in the country? That's just not how things work in football.
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