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Post by jpmanahan on Nov 8, 2011 6:26:29 GMT 8
1. I think it is pretty clear that there is a need to fix the grassroots aspect of the sport. That my friends is an administrative issue and let the PFF work on that. They started with the local version of the Suzuki Cup, now we build on that. it will take time, and that is something we have.
2. It's pretty clear how the pace increased when the Hartmanns, especially Mark were replaced. Given the need to win all our remaining games, we might just have to do the nuke option:
Muller Leonora - JVB - Basa - Fernandez (since Carli is suspended) Ott - JdJ (C) Porteria - Christiaens Beloya Clarino - Valmayor
Joshua might be a better facilitator / poaching & scoring threat than Mark H.
It might be a reach, but can we handle a 3-5-2, with Ott / JdJ assimilating to the back line if needed to form a 5-3-2?
3. I have faith in the players. I have faith in those who made the commitment to support the team.
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Post by dingodile5 on Nov 8, 2011 8:11:31 GMT 8
Sad to say that as of now, only our senior team is successful but our youth teams need more time to develop It will take 3 to 5 years for the youth to be developed. Grassroots programs is the key for this. Good thing PFF has already a master plan for youth. Good thing is that in this tournament, we saw potential players that can be brought to senior side in the future I like the play of Valmayor. He has a play in the match. If they really aiming for a medal, they need to win the last remaining 3 matches or else no medal if they lose 1 of them unless it depends on other opponents results in our group.
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Post by kuo24 on Nov 8, 2011 8:53:31 GMT 8
A coach giving up before his young players? I find that inexcusable.
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Post by shanks608 on Nov 8, 2011 8:56:48 GMT 8
Guys, as long as football is still not that popular here in the country we will be having problems in developing players.. Reality check guys, all of us here in the forum are passionate about football so obviously we can think a lot of reasons on how we can improve the game.. but if we take a look outside what do we see? yes, football may be starting to get popular in the country. but the majority of the kids in our country still love BASKETBALL! some kids even say that "football, Pa choy2x ra man na!" ("football, a game for pretty boys") I just got lucky that my school is into football rather than basketball. we got more goal posts than basketball rings.. lol! We have to have more options for the kids to choose football rather basketball. it's what gives them motivation to play it.. I would like to share something.. in our school, before, football was not that popular compared to basketball. but it was already there since we have a Bosconian teacher.. The basketball guys were more popular and are the teacher favorites.. i don't know why. anyway, kids seeing this wanted to become those guys and play basketball every free time they can have.. But our basketball team is not that good, they can't even beat the nearby National Highschool who have really huge and over aged players.. LOL! Slowly our football team began winning games.. from district all the way to the regional level and at one time to the Palarong Pambansa! well we exited early there since we were not yet that established. but it brought pride to us and our school become famous for football in the district level. with that success, kids wanted to play football.. and now more kids play it more than basketball. hehe. at one point footballs were used by kids to play basketball, now basketballs are kicked around used as footballs. LOL!! our coach didn't have a coaching licence. he was just a teacher who had a genuine love for football!
Football in our country still has a lot of catching up to do and we all know that. But if the kids have the someone to look up to that they can emulate. then that would be the best way to develop our grassroots.. It's all in the marketing guys!! That's why i like what's happening now with the UFL.. i hope there would be more exposure to the teams and of course our National Team.. More wins gain more fans.. more fans, more appeal to the public.. In the recent football movement in the country i think it would still take 5 - 10 years for us to achieve the results that we would want..
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Post by tombucho on Nov 8, 2011 9:21:56 GMT 8
slayer, saan ang mali ng coach?? parinig nga ng explanation mo??? mukhang coach ka dati eh... tombucho, Let me get this straight. In participating in this forum, we don't have to indulge who we are and what profession you're into. Discussions and game/post-game analysis are all welcome here as long the manner of expressing it here is civilized and not "puro ka-pilosopohan at pang-go." Freedom of speech comes with pro and cons. We cannot avoid the infestation of garbage posts which are by nature "pamimilosopo", "pang-go", derigatory, and racist/sexist which derails the quality of this forum. Hence, it's the responsibility of the Moderators to proactively do forum housekeeping. But as readers/posters, it's our own responsibility to discern and demodulate worthless posts from the factual, legitimate, and beneficial ones. In short, read and learn from beneficial post. Ignore the useless posts. Now going back to topic: I don't want to elaborate all the nitty-gritty details of what issues most of us here feel towards the current coach. There are tons of discussion as well as constuctive debates and criticisms (keyword: constructive) has been lay on the floor by some technical posters. Repeating it here is like plaigarism or copy-paste posting. Out of courtesy and acknowledgement to those few really good posters who took the burden of collating information and spent time writing those post, I suggest you read back the extensive discussion in the following threads: - World Cup Qualifier: Philippines-vs-Sri Lanka (away game) - World Cup Qualifier: Philippines-vs-Kuwait (away game) - Friendly game: Philppines-vs-Singapore - Long Teng Cup 2011 - Wiess vs Macca comparison If you are really interested to get well informed about the current state of the Azkals (it's up to you), then take time scanning those threads. I assume you just recently tuned here since you still asking what are the issues that needs to be address with regards to the current coach, where almost all regular posters and even the Mods are already aware of this. Issues like: - Player rotation/substitution (indirectly pertaining to the inability to trust bench players (subbing Araneta for Guirado @ Singapore friendly)
- Non-optimal player positioning i.e. fielding a natural midfielder in Center back (Matt Hartmann @ SEAG 2011) or an attacking midfielder as Left-back (Mulders @ WCG2011 Sri Lanka)
Now most of us saying that the team lacks cohesion and teamwork because the Fil-Fors just joined at the last minute. This is a known football fact that the Philippines will be relying on our Fil-For contigent. This is both our strength and weakness. To offset the weakness (Fil-Fors not having enough time to practice with others) the widely accepted solution is to field them in the same postion they play for in their respective international clubs. Meanwhile, the mainstays players should be the ones practicing playing together. In that way, the Fil-Fors that will supplement specific positions will only be requiring minor adjustments when playing against the mainstays. Hey slayer, Relax lang ang dami mo namang sinabi pero di mo pa rin nasagot ang napaka simple kong tanong..."PANO MO NGA NASABI NA MALI ANG COACH" .I want to hear from you personally. Di ko na kelangan balikan ang mga naka post dito kasi nabasa ko na lahat. Napakadali i-summarize ang mga post dito. Pag nanalo, napakagaling ng Azkals, tama ang ginawa ng coach. Pag natatalo, mali ang ang ginawa ng players, mali ang coach. Para mag improve kelangan ng grass roots program. Kelangan mas matagal ang praktis para may cohesion.Kelangan kunin si ganito, si ganyan. Kelangan ilagay sa position si ganito, si ganyan..Kelangan ganito defense/offense formation. Paulit ulit lang naman eh. Wala naman nag-iba.
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Post by tombucho on Nov 8, 2011 9:43:25 GMT 8
tombucho, Let me get this straight. In participating in this forum, we don't have to indulge who we are and what profession you're into. Discussions and game/post-game analysis are all welcome here as long the manner of expressing it here is civilized and not "puro ka-pilosopohan at pang-go." Freedom of speech comes with pro and cons. We cannot avoid the infestation of garbage posts which are by nature "pamimilosopo", "pang-go", derigatory, and racist/sexist which derails the quality of this forum. Hence, it's the responsibility of the Moderators to proactively do forum housekeeping. But as readers/posters, it's our own responsibility to discern and demodulate worthless posts from the factual, legitimate, and beneficial ones. In short, read and learn from beneficial post. Ignore the useless posts. Now going back to topic: I don't want to elaborate all the nitty-gritty details of what issues most of us here feel towards the current coach. There are tons of discussion as well as constuctive debates and criticisms (keyword: constructive) has been lay on the floor by some technical posters. Repeating it here is like plaigarism or copy-paste posting. Out of courtesy and acknowledgement to those few really good posters who took the burden of collating information and spent time writing those post, I suggest you read back the extensive discussion in the following threads: - World Cup Qualifier: Philippines-vs-Sri Lanka (away game) - World Cup Qualifier: Philippines-vs-Kuwait (away game) - Friendly game: Philppines-vs-Singapore - Long Teng Cup 2011 - Wiess vs Macca comparison If you are really interested to get well informed about the current state of the Azkals (it's up to you), then take time scanning those threads. I assume you just recently tuned here since you still asking what are the issues that needs to be address with regards to the current coach, where almost all regular posters and even the Mods are already aware of this. Issues like: - Player rotation/substitution (indirectly pertaining to the inability to trust bench players (subbing Araneta for Guirado @ Singapore friendly)
- Non-optimal player positioning i.e. fielding a natural midfielder in Center back (Matt Hartmann @ SEAG 2011) or an attacking midfielder as Left-back (Mulders @ WCG2011 Sri Lanka)
Now most of us saying that the team lacks cohesion and teamwork because the Fil-Fors just joined at the last minute. This is a known football fact that the Philippines will be relying on our Fil-For contigent. This is both our strength and weakness. To offset the weakness (Fil-Fors not having enough time to practice with others) the widely accepted solution is to field them in the same postion they play for in their respective international clubs. Meanwhile, the mainstays players should be the ones practicing playing together. In that way, the Fil-Fors that will supplement specific positions will only be requiring minor adjustments when playing against the mainstays. Hey slayer, Relax lang ang dami mo namang sinabi pero di mo pa rin nasagot ang napaka simple kong tanong.."PANO MO NGA NASABI NA MALI ANG COACH; .I want to hear from you personally. Di ko na kelangan balikan ang mga naka post dito kasi nabasa ko na lahat. Napakadali i-summarize ng mga post dito. Pag nanalo, napakagaling ng Azkals, tama ang ginawa ng coach. Pag natatalo, mali ang ang ginawa ng players, mali ang coach. Para mag improve kelangan ng grass roots program. Kelangan mas matagal ang praktis para may cohesion.Kelangan kunin si ganito, si ganyan. Kelangan ilagay sa position si ganito, si ganyan..Kelangan ganito defense/offense formation. Paulit ulit lang naman eh. Wala naman nag-iba. I will always question those who question the coach and the players because what right have you got to question them in the first place? What have you done personally to philippine football? Have you even played football?Baka naman sa PS3 lang? Kanya kanyang paninindigan lang yan. Ang paninindigan ko ay walang kasalanan ang sinumang player or coach. They are busting there assess out there. Its just that we are simply not at the highest level yet. Kelangan pang napakatagal na panahon para umasenso but a least we are in the right direction.
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Post by shanks608 on Nov 8, 2011 10:13:43 GMT 8
tombucho : No offense, but that's why we have this forum bro. to discuss things on what went wrong, how did our players play, what did the coach do, how do we need to improve things, how do we develop our football. that's what this forum is all about.. To question and discuss!
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Post by fadzki on Nov 8, 2011 10:19:59 GMT 8
JAKARTA—Football, a sport that’s enjoying unprecedented popularity back home, became the first casualty for Team Philippines in the 26th Southeast Asian Games.
“I want to say (that I am) deeply sorry to the wonderful fans back home,” a dejected German coach Michael Weiss said moments after his Under-23 Azkals took a 2-1 loss from Timor Leste Monday afternoon to all but bow out of their event.
Diogo Santos Rangel knocked in the marginal goal just three minutes into the second half, breaking a 1-1 tie the Filipinos forged at the Lebak Bulus Stadium here.
Poor defense again doomed the Azkals, who gave up a goal just 17 minutes into the match and couldn’t prevent Rangel from zigzagging his way near the penalty box to flick in the winning goal.
Rangel got a feed from Murilo and dribbled his way past Patrick Hinrichsen in the right flank before scoring with his right foot which keeper Roland Muller didn’t come close to stopping.
With their second straight loss after a thorough 1-3 manhandling from Vietnam last Thursday, the Filipinos now need a miracle to advance to the crossover Final Four.
As things stand in Group B, Timor Leste has the lead at 2-0 with Vietnam and Myanmar tied with a win and a draw each. The Philippines next faces Myanmar and then Laos and Cambodia.
Only two squads will make it to the next round and something absolutely crazy must happen in the last three games of the Timorese, the Vietnamese and Myanmar for the Philippines to advance.
“It was a very bitter defeat for such a young team,” Weiss said.
“This team is being prepared for (the SEAG in) 2013,” the burly coach said. “Right now, I don’t think it’s realistic for us to think of the semis. I don’t think that it was even realistic to think about it from the start (of the tournament).”
Jose Elmer Porteira knotted the score in the 37th minute after converting on a right-footed strike deep in the penalty box which was set up by a brilliant cross from Patrick Hinrichsen.
I think his being realistic but our Coach has already given up the fight... I don't like that kind of thinking anything can happen if somehow we can sweep the last 3 matches will have 9 pts... c'mon coach Wiess...
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Post by akosiabab on Nov 8, 2011 10:20:14 GMT 8
may nakita tayo improvements sa ginawa ni coach weiss. sa players na lng on how they improve there skills and turo ni coach weiss
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Post by akosiabab on Nov 8, 2011 10:25:37 GMT 8
yung hartmanns brothers lng talaga. yung si mark ang bagal talaga gumalaw. nakita nyo maglaro si valmayor? may play pa cya. kaso kulang lang sa magandang pass from midfielders like mark hartmann wla eh ang bagal pa. maganda din ginawa ni coach pinalitan ang team captain si matt hartmann sa kanya parati ang loophole sa defense. si darren naman nagcriticize kay valmayor eh maganda ang laro ni valmayor than his brothers!!!
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Post by stellarboy on Nov 8, 2011 11:27:08 GMT 8
This YouTube video was shared by the admin of the Azkals.com forums. He really speculated it's pure German tactics, wherein long balls from the GK must find a striker or an attacking midfielder at goal to shoot. Remember Etheridge finding Phil YH at goal during the home game against Kuwait? or Mueller trying to find Christiaens in front vs. Chinese Taipei? To be honest, it hasn't been effective so far. The Timorese must have used the Brazilian plan, trying to scatter every player in the opponent's side before aiming for the goal. Your thoughts?...
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Post by tombucho on Nov 8, 2011 11:39:10 GMT 8
tombucho : No offense, but that's why we have this forum bro. to discuss things on what went wrong, how did our players play, what did the coach do, how do we need to improve things, how do we develop our football. that's what this forum is all about.. To question and discuss! @shanks...none taken. i have no problem with most of the discussions/suggestions here. But i just hate it when someone makes sweeping generalizations like "its the coach's fault". Di naman tayo kasama sa mga practices nila eh. Sa mga tune-up games etc..Ang dami-dami nating hindi alam within the team.
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Post by CVROM on Nov 8, 2011 11:47:16 GMT 8
“It was a very bitter defeat for such a young team,” “This team is being prepared for (the SEAG in) 2013,” the burly coach said. “Right now, I don’t think it’s realistic for us to think of the semis. I don’t think that it was even realistic to think about it from the start (of the tournament).”Weiss said. a sad reality
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bigfoot
UF Scout
European Scout
Posts: 142
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Post by bigfoot on Nov 8, 2011 11:50:31 GMT 8
@ bigfoot^^ ok stand corrected, but they are professionals they are already good players, we are just developing and this is asia not europe....see the difference it is good to plan and dream that our players will the same as europe but this is asean before we pattern ourself to europe we need to align ourself first to our asean neighbors....... if it is not applicable to the youth why still we rely on them???yes, they are good way good but as a team stand point there skills will have a hard time to gel........for example I thought after the under 23 tourney I thought the team will be build up for the training, but no not until last month.....if that guys was trained i bet we can excel plus the or even our reinforcement came in late...... frankly im hoped that the plan of the PFF after under 23 would pushed through at that time but my hoped is in vain that is why i am hesitant to this team's success this asean games... except for the hartmann' ,muller and some others ?? the rest is not professional at all, i think . all are hoping to get a contract, most of them will never get one or play semi-professional . i know this for certain for JVB and Jeffrey and i guess it's similar for the 3 other germans. why else you think manny was considering to stay in germany ? not every european player is given a contract as long as you don't play or are member of the main squad for at least a second division club (given some exceptions) . asean level ? i was watching indonesia play yesterday and they would give a lot of european clubs a run for their money . vietnam also had some very good players, so does myanmar ; i was less impressed by timor leste . we have to make a big step to level up to teams like this and can not do this in a flash . i would rather take it step by step, start with what you have here, and start adding young promising players (local or foreign) . and this also for younger ages . bring them together on a regular basis, also expose them to european teams (play tournaments there ) . a lot of national teams do this : we played with jacques' clubs international tournaments in spring in Spain, where aside from a lot of european topclub teams we had the Brazilian Mexican selections of U16,U14,U12, Aspire academy and some others international squads ; in may-june in holland we played national U20 teams from Japan, Senegal, South Korea, VS, Canada and others . those teams spend 2-4 weeks in europe during the european offseason and go around to the tournaments. most of them are invited by the organizers and stay there for free, as they are attracting other paying teams and spectators . this is the time of the year to start looking for contacts there now . even if they don't let us come for free we can keep the cost down, i am sure we can find enough volunteers with the local philippine community to house players for the few days a tournament lasts, they will be happy and proud to house them and go all out to support them . last easter a small tournament was organized in germany where some of the present players where playing : lots of support !!! there is somebody in Ilocos Sur, Magsingal who is sending small young teams to europe regularly : "one boys team to Fragaria Cup (Slovakia) in 2010 and two teams (boys and girls) in 2011, Two teams (under 8 and under l0 )were scheduled to play eight exhibition games in Mechelen and Leuven on Nov 3 & 4. But their visa are still pending at the Belgian Embassy." you see things move but this is a private initiative, nobody seems to know anything about this . but like the case of mr. palami, whose help and determination should not be underestimated and cannot be appreciated enough, this is private funding . i will go and visit them later this month, to go and see what, where and how they work. i keep you informed here since this could be an example for others to follow .
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Post by mamachubs on Nov 8, 2011 11:52:56 GMT 8
slow, at times sloppy and still immature. that's how i would describe the U-23 Azkals. the Timorese were surprisingly massive in size but you can see how their conditioning and mature play sets them apart. i even wondered if they were really under 23. but yes, the hartmanns are overrated IMO. very slow. mark may be a good scorer, but he is too offensive minded, provides no defensive help, and gives up too easily on the pitch.
i was amused to see that goal dance routine, but it seems mas praktisado pa nila yun...hehehe.
herein lies the dilemma. while its good that we can get foreign based players with the skills, what use are they to us if they can't build rapport and cohesiveness with the other players? the same goes for our seniors team. having the skills is one thing, but if you are not familiar with how your other teammates play, then that skill will not be worth much. this is the great challenge for the PFF. with the amount of money they are spending on the foreign based players, we will need to see output. otherwise, it might be better to spend the money on developing local talents and just bring in foreign technical experts to train them, or better yet, send them to camps abroad. exposure naman talaga ang kelangan eh. build the core.
sa akin lang, Weiss should not have apologized like that. di pa kelangan. maybe he was showing humility, pero ang labas eh weakness. it could have been expressed better siguro...parang, we will do our best for the remaining games, but out thrust is towards 2013 na...he must still motivate his team. telling us that he is no longer looking to the semis, and will no longer field in the filfors is not a good way to motivate the team or even the fans.
mga bata pa nga ang mga ito, their plays are driven by their emotions. hopefully they learn and grow from their experience sa SEAG. di pa naman tapos ang laro. just keep at it. may nakikita naman tayong flashes of brilliance eh...sa cohesiveness, conditioning at discipline kinulang. on to 2013 then...Laban pa din!
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