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Post by markusbrutus on Nov 9, 2011 10:30:15 GMT 8
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Post by jpesarza on Nov 9, 2011 11:13:19 GMT 8
Gosh! Can't even calculate what team should win and which team should lose for us to be in favor. All i can say is that the next 3 games are crucial and i think less liked teams (Laos/Brunei) should make huge upset to the teams currently in winning runs, the likes of Vietnam and Myanmar and Timor Leste. *slowly munching my lechon kawali
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Post by Wiking on Nov 9, 2011 12:10:53 GMT 8
I'm with Herr Gestapo,
Gents for a few hours lets talk about something positive about our SEAG team. Its been quite negative lately(believe me I understand, I took a break from my blog just because I felt so bad for the team).
Anyway here are the positive/ good things I've noticed and in no particular order:
Jason de Jong: I've never really seen him play so offensively. He has better ball handling skills than I ever thought. I've taped both games and in the second game it seems he decided to take matters into his own hands(orders from coach?) and despite no goals, showed what he can do. Its a very big surprise for me, I hope he carries this to the senior NT and not just be a defensive mid for it.
Manny Ott: We all know what he did the 1st game, in the second despite not having another goal was still around the ball quite often. I think he has one of the better "football IQ" in the U23 team.
OJ Porteria: He wasn't able to use his offensive skills in the first game(for obvious reasons) but in the second, he was not just in the offensive end but in the defense too. Very high energy player, terrific motor on the kid.
Jeff C: He keeps showing us his tantalizing speed, with more tutoring with his team in Belgium(KM Torhout) no doubt he will be a force for the Philippine teams for a long time.
Jacques van Bossche: This kid is an eye opener, like I mentioned earlier I've taped both games, and 'statistically' he defended more shot on goals in both games and has out played every defensive player put beside him. Though not comparable to Aly or Rob G by any stretch of imagination, he is young and has the right tools(tall, speed enough, competent in that particular position).
Carli: I think for the R full back position, he is a better offensive weapon than Anton delRo, and purely defensive wise, probably comparable to our defensive mainstay. Against stronger offensive teams I'd still prefer Anton, but thats just me.
Valmayor: I don't know much about the kid but flashes of (dare I say) brilliance, came through in the second game. I think because it was his first time that he was somewhat overawed with the situation, but in the future I expect him to be better overall.
N. Leonora: I still believe this kid can be a defensive mainstay for the team in the future. I don't think he was out skilled in the 1st game, rather he played without discipline as he strayed from his areas of responsibilities. In the second game he stayed where he was suppose to be and played well. It helps that the kid is fast as hell too.
Despite the loss, the team showed it can pass the ball well when they set themselves up and not hurry. Despite the physically bigger opponent, when we played a short passing game, we neutralized their advantage. I can tell it caused them great concern when we did this.
Coach Weiss: everyone who's been in this forum a few months knows I strongly disagree with one thing in particular with coach Weiss; his distrust of his bench players(Kuwait and all the games until LTC), but it seems he has been more open now. I hope he continues on this path.
Anymore positive things you guys saw in this game?...
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bigfoot
UF Scout
European Scout
Posts: 142
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Post by bigfoot on Nov 9, 2011 12:31:46 GMT 8
jonny, thanks for the info. still i disagree. compare this list with the players that actually played on both sides and make your conclusions then . it's not easy to figure out who's who in that wikipedia posting, they seem to use different names . on the page of sea-games it's the official starting line up
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Post by narko on Nov 9, 2011 13:03:00 GMT 8
I'm with Herr Gestapo, Gents for a few hours lets talk about something positive about our SEAG team. Its been quite negative lately(believe me I understand, I took a break from my blog just because I felt so bad for the team). Anyway here are the positive/ good things I've noticed and in no particular order: Jason de Jong: I've never really seen him play so offensively. He has better ball handling skills than I ever thought. I've taped both games and in the second game it seems he decided to take matters into his own hands(orders from coach?) and despite no goals, showed what he can do. Its a very big surprise for me, I hope he carries this to the senior NT and not just be a defensive mid for it. Manny Ott: We all know what he did the 1st game, in the second despite not having another goal was still around the ball quite often. I think he has one of the better "football IQ" in the U23 team. OJ Porteria: He wasn't able to use his offensive skills in the first game(for obvious reasons) but in the second, he was not just in the offensive end but in the defense too. Very high energy player, terrific motor on the kid. Jeff C: He keeps showing us his tantalizing speed, with more tutoring with his team in Belgium(KM Torhout) no doubt he will be a force for the Philippine teams for a long time. Jacques van Bossche: This kid is an eye opener, like I mentioned earlier I've taped both games, and 'statistically' he defended more shot on goals in both games and has out played every defensive player put beside him. Though not comparable to Aly or Rob G by any stretch of imagination, he is young and has the right tools(tall, speed enough, competent in that particular position). Carli: I think for the R full back position, he is a better offensive weapon than Anton delRo, and purely defensive wise, probably comparable to our defensive mainstay. Against stronger offensive teams I'd still prefer Anton, but thats just me. Valmayor: I don't know much about the kid but flashes of (dare I say) brilliance, came through in the second game. I think because it was his first time that he was somewhat overawed with the situation, but in the future I expect him to be better overall. N. Leonora: I still believe this kid can be a defensive mainstay for the team in the future. I don't think he was out skilled in the 1st game, rather he played without discipline as he strayed from his areas of responsibilities. In the second game he stayed where he was suppose to be and played well. It helps that the kid is fast as hell too. Despite the loss, the team showed it can pass the ball well when they set themselves up and not hurry. Despite the physically bigger opponent, when we played a short passing game, we neutralized their advantage. I can tell it caused them great concern when we did this. Coach Weiss: everyone who's been in this forum a few months knows I strongly disagree with one thing in particular with coach Weiss; his distrust of his bench players(Kuwait and all the games until LTC), but it seems he has been more open now. I hope he continues on this path. Anymore positive things you guys saw in this game?... Regarding Valmayor (against Timor Leste) and Beloya (against Vietnam), I think one reason we didn't get to see much of what they can do is because of Mark Hartmann. Note how fluid our playing style became in the Timor Leste match after Mark was subbed off. Mark made an impression against local opposition in the tune up matches but somehow seems lacking when up against superior opponents. He's too slow to play as lone striker up top, and he wasn't too dynamic (a polite way of saying lazy, hehe) when in a midfield role. I hope Valmayor, Beloya and/or Clarino get their chance to show more of what they can do next match. I agree with your observation about Leonora's first match. He just needs more time to develop and improve his tactical awareness. He definitely has the individual skill and talent, but he needs to be exposed to more competitions like these to gain experience and improve other aspects of his game such as tactical and positional awareness and discipline. This is one for the future. Notice how he played in the Timor Leste match? Everyone was pushing up to get that equalizer and Leonora was the one bringing the ball up during our offensive transitions, Pique style and lately, Sergio Ramos when he plays as centerback for Real Madrid. I thought he was doing a good job of it too. Carli, Christaens, Ott and De Jong - no need to say much more. You could see them trying to make things happen. Muller - his performance against Vietnam says it all despite the 3 goals conceded. Porteria is promising, and the best thing about him is that he is only 17 years old (if I am not mistaken). Coach Weiss, what can I say? (Tongue firmly in cheek) Tactical innovator - playing Muller as a sweeper (hehehe)
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Post by Wiking on Nov 9, 2011 13:52:56 GMT 8
Hi narko,
Well, I'm glad people did see something good about some of the players. I didn't want to mention any players in a negative light(I felt we needed a 180 turn from the negative for a while). As for the coach, he's free and until anyone else(besides Palami) decides to open their wallets, he's staying there for the duration no matter.
The greatest positive for me is, there are promising local and foreign based players for our future. I remain convinced we are going the right(even if not too smoothly) direction.
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Post by narko on Nov 9, 2011 14:23:58 GMT 8
Hi narko, Well, I'm glad people did see something good about some of the players. I didn't want to mention any players in a negative light(I felt we needed a 180 turn from the negative for a while). As for the coach, he's free and until anyone else(besides Palami) decides to open their wallets, he's staying there for the duration no matter. The greatest positive for me is, there are promising local and foreign based players for our future. I remain convinced we are going the right(even if not too smoothly) direction. I share your sentiment Wiking that we are going in the right direction. After seeing and experiencing how horrible Philippine football used to be, I am very happy with the progress that has been made in such a short time. What other people seem to forget is that unlike our rivals, football in the Philippines is a second class citizen. Our rivals simply need resources, whereas Philippine football not only has to struggle coming up with resources for its growth and development, it also has the added challenge and burden of generating institutional and public support for its objectives and programs. From that perspective, I feel I can be patient so long as there are positives that are slowly being gained. Besides, for anyone who loves football, winning matches is just one of the metrics for progress. Being able to play well, competitively and raise the quality of play of our locals for me is also progress. Isn't that the beauty of football? That there are matches you can enjoy even without goals being scored. That it is possible that the better team lost. Getting a medal and bringing home some silverware would be great, but for me that would be icing on the cake, a bonus. Because right now, what is more important to me than defeating Kuwait, Vietnam, Hong Kong, Singapore, Timor Leste, etc. is we first beat this challenge we have of making sure that Philippine football gets to go where it needs to be. Winning matches will help, it's part of the equation but it isn't the be all and end all for me. Can't wait for the next match.
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Post by xclentoy on Nov 9, 2011 14:28:01 GMT 8
positive i see on the U - 23 is they are passing more, learning more offensive plays, playing dynamic football, more confidence in their plays and not rely on luck by just parking the bus.
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Post by Tiggy on Nov 9, 2011 21:01:48 GMT 8
positive i see on the U - 23 is they are passing more, learning more offensive plays, playing dynamic football, more confidence in their plays and not rely on luck by just parking the bus. We hope to see this in their match this friday. It will be a Do or Die situation for the U-23.
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Post by akosiabab on Nov 9, 2011 21:21:07 GMT 8
dapat e bench or mawala na sa under 23 ang hartmann brothers. wla eh pang media lang cla. makikita mo si mark mahilig mangsisi kahit mali nya. payabang eh nawawala ang confidence ng ibang players. dapat kunin din ang captains armband kay matt
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Post by wenden96 on Nov 9, 2011 23:32:04 GMT 8
wow you really underestimate the capability of the locals....and pinning your hopes to fil-for........taking everything on reason as a scapegoat in losing.....if they are in jet lag then muller will not play superbly during the vietnam match.......wow....... have you ever played any sport jet-lagged? muller isnt required to run up and down the pitch like other players did and also it really depends on each person how they adjust to the timezone differences. i emphasized this cuz i have played basketball jet-lagged when i went back to the PI. i was about to pass out during the game. im not underestimating local talent. frankly, if theyre good enough then they wouldve gotten selected over players from overseas. the foreign based players were selected for a reason...theyre simply better than other locals right now. without the foreign based players, we would be at the bottom of the rankings. right now we're using players from abroad as a short term fix while we're developing our grassroots program. like seriously if we field an all local team, i mean without players with foreign origin, we'd sadly lose 7-0 in a heartbeat.football frenzy just started in the philippines last year. we cant expect them to produce wonder kids within a year, thus we rely on foreign based talent right now. still ouch.... yes we did during our short stint in football against thailand (its sister company competition) and in the next day against malaysia.....but as our german coach says we can not use alibi the the jet lag, he rather blame our HR for the wrong planning by sending us the day of competition..... Do you really know what your saying about 7-0, yes i agree with you easy 7-0 if this type of preparation. did you see personnally the local players playing in the national event???and yes foreign trained personnel is better than us.....the fil-for is good because of the training and that is the big difference( TRAINING attained ).....that is why i reacted on what you said....... and do you think it is players or the system is the problem.......for me it is the system...........and dont use the old records of our NT especially the past decade as your baseline of saying that (because I am not fan of itself except when they started re-organize with the help of the younghusband brothers).......I hope you knew the problem of the selection process for the NT that is why NOFA always protested of favoritism instead of the true gauges of selection. any ways we have a different point of view if you are in the other side of the globe, and what I saw locally..... anyways lets just hope that everything will change........for a better future of football in the PHL.
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Post by cypher210 on Nov 10, 2011 3:06:37 GMT 8
have you ever played any sport jet-lagged? muller isnt required to run up and down the pitch like other players did and also it really depends on each person how they adjust to the timezone differences. i emphasized this cuz i have played basketball jet-lagged when i went back to the PI. i was about to pass out during the game. im not underestimating local talent. frankly, if theyre good enough then they wouldve gotten selected over players from overseas. the foreign based players were selected for a reason...theyre simply better than other locals right now. without the foreign based players, we would be at the bottom of the rankings. right now we're using players from abroad as a short term fix while we're developing our grassroots program. like seriously if we field an all local team, i mean without players with foreign origin, we'd sadly lose 7-0 in a heartbeat.football frenzy just started in the philippines last year. we cant expect them to produce wonder kids within a year, thus we rely on foreign based talent right now. still ouch.... yes we did during our short stint in football against thailand (its sister company competition) and in the next day against malaysia.....but as our german coach says we can not use alibi the the jet lag, he rather blame our HR for the wrong planning by sending us the day of competition..... Do you really know what your saying about 7-0, yes i agree with you easy 7-0 if this type of preparation. did you see personnally the local players playing in the national event???and yes foreign trained personnel is better than us.....the fil-for is good because of the training and that is the big difference( TRAINING attained ).....that is why i reacted on what you said....... and do you think it is players or the system is the problem.......for me it is the system...........and dont use the old records of our NT especially the past decade as your baseline of saying that (because I am not fan of itself except when they started re-organize with the help of the younghusband brothers).......I hope you knew the problem of the selection process for the NT that is why NOFA always protested of favoritism instead of the true gauges of selection. any ways we have a different point of view if you are in the other side of the globe, and what I saw locally..... anyways lets just hope that everything will change........for a better future of football in the PHL. see, you even agreed to what i said about local players being behind when it comes to football IQ. its all because of training. i guess it was all because of the corruption in the PFF in the past. the PFF just started the grassroots program that was long overdue. also with FIFA and Real Madrid helping developing the program, this would definitely produce better players in the future. also i dont think its favoritism when it comes to selection. its common sense. the coaching staff will try to assemble the team with the best players possible. why not pick an available foreign based pro from europe with better training over a semi-pro(recently turned pro) local player? am i right? one more thing, we cant expect too much from the U23 because of the senior team's success. theyre two different teams. the U23 players that played during LT cup did good because of the presence of the senior players. now without the senior players, the other u23 players have huge shoes to fill in for SEA games. also the core players of the senior team have been playing together for years now while the U23 was just formed recently. anyway i just hope the PFF and/or FIFA and RM programs produce local talents in the future. they're going towards the right path right now. like i said in an earlier post, football hype in the PI just started last year. so it may take awhile to produce talents that can actually compete at the international level.
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Post by wenden96 on Nov 10, 2011 4:46:05 GMT 8
^^ it doesnt mean that i agree with you....what im trying to emphasize is their a difference in training but it doesnt mean that the player has the edge or one is better or one is not, it is the concept on where they are strong......though yes i agree with you in difference in training.....what im trying to say if the system or the training is copied like what is in europe ill bet with a rigid training within 6 months this locals will be competitive as what can our fil-for can show (of course with some excemption like porteria and muller they were way advance)....it is the development, give it to the guys.....but if you said that the local are weak, i strongly disagree it is just how to develop them....system system.....
favoritism is there even before not only in football.....that is why there is a big difference if you didnt see, hear and noticed if you didnt stay here for a long time. Check other news on jony's blog regarding the provincial players call up or the cebufootball blog, this blog has a history way early 2k and read it. again there are no problem for the fil-for however to few excemption for example the hartmann brothers. and i dont know if you agree there are lot of local talent that can compete with the local on the NT....do you believe in that, i know you would disagree. But the only thing they can not join the try-out simple, financial and no connection on the higher authoritis not unless they where discover by the colleges and other private sector.
and i dont believe that we must not expect for our under 23...why, as i said before why the under 23 tournament was formed, the sole purpose is to create a squad to be trained as early as june for the asean games. This is the slogan of the PFF, development of the locals while they are scouting for the foreign based pinoys.but to what...what happen not until a month ago they where formally form. all the promises all the hype on the news by the PFF, masses was bombarded with this information so majority will hope that they can do it all the way.but what is now the result.......though exclude me to those who are hoping, why, when i hear about the training period and the type of selection done i even count them only two wins against brunei and timor leste...but what happen even timor leste that never been defeated us, now they are competing good....it is easy to accept a defeat from vietnam but not timor leste......
and friend dont use the word "football hype in the PI just started last year", why, i would chose the early 90's thats the true hype that is my high school year where basketball is not well known in negros island. i would accept if you use resurgent. football is very old in the country even older than the basketball. it is just mismanage and the american way of thinking that is why football had crippled, not to the provinces in the visayas and some football clubs in manila maybe football will totally gone. and if we dream that we can produce talents then divert some spending to train our coach and player for the international level....and by the way we had already talents that has names on the international level....
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Post by cypher210 on Nov 10, 2011 9:30:05 GMT 8
I didnt say the locals are weak. i said the foreign based players are better right now because they have better training. like i said earlier, the team will take the best possible players available that includes foreign based and locals. im not anti-local players bro. im just saying that local players will get the chance to play at the international level if theyre good enough. i dont mind seeing leonora and other locals play. but im not expecting them to be all great on the field. what im saying right now that im not expecting much from the current local NT players we have(well except for chieffy). maybe in like 7-10 yrs when kids from the grassroots program start excelling.
why not to expect much from the U23? because they were just formed pretty recently and going against teams like Vietnam and other good SEA U23 teams that have players that have been playing together in their previous youth programs.
and the whole PFF promises to bring up the hype? its easier said than done. these kids are in college and they have other priorities other than philippine football. thats why it took them months to formalize the team
also i was talking about the PI as a whole country not just negros. it was all about basketball in the 90s. i didnt see any news headliner about football in the 90s and u call that true hype? im pretty sure that it was only recently that philippine football was under the limelight. i guess i should stop calling it hype. i should call it a fad. lol
anyway the only thing we can do is to wait for the future generation of azkals that can dominate at the international level. im talking about future local players that would compete in the big leagues of Europe not SEA Leagues. its been awhile since we had a player like alcantara.
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Post by rhamz84 on Nov 10, 2011 9:42:47 GMT 8
Group A Tinalo pala ng Malaysia ang Thailand. Malaysia U23 vs Thailand U23 ----------> 2-1
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